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Title: Transcript of the Bidwell/Macdonnel/Hills Trial
Author: Edgar Wallace
* A Project Gutenberg of Australia eBook *
eBook No.: 1400111h-01.html
Language: English
Date first posted:  Jan 2014
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Transcript of the Bidwell/Macdonnel/Hills Trial

Old Bailey Proceedings Online (,
version 7.0, 03 January 2014), August 1873, trial of
Austin Biron Bidwell (27) George Macdonnell (28)
George Bidwell (34) Edwin Noyes Hills (29) (t18730818-483).


Monday, August 18th, Tuesday 19th, Wednesday 20th,
Thursday 21st, Friday 22nd, Saturday 23rd, Monday 25th,
and Tuesday 26th, 1873

Before Mr. Justice Archibald

483. AUSTIN BIRON BIDWELL (27), GEORGE MACDONNELL (28), GEORGE BIDWELL (34), and EDWIN NOYES HILLS (29), were indicted for feloniously forging a Bill of Exchange for 1,000l., with intent to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. Second Count, for uttering the same. Other Counts varying the mode of charge.

MR. H. S. GIFFARD, Q.C., MR. WATKIN WILLIAMS, Q.C., MESSRS. POLAND, H.D. GREENE, and J.H. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution; MR. MCINTYRE, Q.C., with MR. MOODY, defended Austin Biron Bidwell; MR. POWELL, Q.C., with MR. BESLEY, defended Macdonnell; MR. METCALFE, Q.C., with MR. STRAIGHT, defended George Bidwell; and MR. RIBTON, with MR. HOLLINGS, defended Hills.

JOSEPH JAMES CHASE. I am a clerk to Messrs. Freshfields, the solicitors to the Bank of England—on 12th August I served a notice to produce upon the prisoners personally in Newgate, and also upon Mr. Howell, the attorney for the two Bidwells and Noyes, and upon Mr. Wontner, the attorney for Macdonnell, at their respective offices—I produce the original notice—on 16th August I served a further notice in the same way.

EDWARD HAMILTON GREEN. I am a tailor and army clothier, carrying on business, in partnership with my son, at 35, Savile Row—I know the prisoner Austin Bidwell by the name of Warren, and Macdonnell by the name of Swift—I recollect their calling upon me in April, I believe about the 18th, with another person, to order some clothes—it is my practice, when persons call to order clothes, to ask them to sign a book, which I produce—the two prisoners signed theirs, Austin Bidwell as F. A. Warren, and Macdonnell as Edward R. Swift, both of 21, Enfield Road, Haggerstone; the third person, I believe, did not sign, I don't recollect him; he was introduced by the name of Siebert—I made them a considerable quautity of clothes—on the 4th of May the same two prisoners called again in a cab, and I think with a third party, but that I won't swear—they tried on the clothes I had made for them—we entered into conversation, and I understood them to say they were going to visit Ireland; they did not say when; they had a eab at the door, with luggage on it, and they said they were in a hurry to catch the train; I understood that they were going to Birmingham first, then to Liverpool, and from Liverpool to Ireland—in the course of conversation Austin Bidwell said he had more money than he thought it prudent to leave at his lodging or hotel—I said "Is it of any amount?"—he said "Yes, it is some amount"—I think he said about 2,000l.—that being the case, I declined to take charge of it, and said "I should recommend you to deposit it with some bank; my banker's is close at hand"—he said "We have very little time to spare, we are in a hurry to get a train"—I said "It will not take you long; I can take you down there"—I then accompanied him to the Western Branch of the Bank of England, where I kept an account—I saw Mr. Fenwick, the sub-manager—Mr. Pimm was the manager at that time, he was then absent—I introduced Austin Bidwell to Mr. Fenwick, describing him as an American gentleman and a customer of mine, and that he had a certain sum of money that he wished to deposit—I think I mentioned his name as Warren—he was alone with me—the signature-book was then brought for him to write his name and address—I think Mr. Fenwick asked how he was to be described, and he said as an agent, I think—he handed the money to Mr. Fenwick—I think I was present when he signed the book—Mr. Fenwick gave him a chequebook—he said that more money would be remitted to him in the course of a week, I think 1,000I., and how should he manage, should it come through me—Mr. Fenwick replied that there was no occasion for that now, as he had opened the account there was no occasion to trouble me—we then returned to Savile Row, and the three parties left in the cab; at all events, Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell did—I fancy I saw them afterwards two or three times at our place of business—I sent the clothes to the address they gave—the first order went to Enfield Road, Haggerstone.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I cannot, without referring, tell when it was that I first saw Austin Bidwell, it was in April, at all events, when he gave the order for the clothes; he was measured at that time—on 4th May he came to try them on—his name was put in my book before the 4th May; we made the entry from his dictation; here is his signature, which he wrote himself, "F. A. Warren, 21, Enfield Road, Haggerstone"—there is no date put—I cannot tell you when that signature was written—the first time he came he was in company with Macdonnell; I won't swear that there was anyone else at that time, or on 4th May, but I fancy there was; yes, I think there was—there was more than one person with him when he came on 4th May, and when we came back from the bank there was more than one person waiting for him—when I was examined before I don't think I mentioned any other person but Swift as waiting for him—I don't think I suggested to him to put the money in my bank—he wanted to leave it with me, and I suggested that I should not like to have so much money left with me, and he had better put it into the bank—I introduced the name of the banker to him—I told him that the bank was in Burlington Gardens, close by, and then he said he would go with me to the bank—the principal part of the money he handed over was bank notes—he gave the same name at the bank that he had given to me—I had seen him more than once before the 4th May.

Re-examined. The date of the first order was on 18th April.

EDWARD ELLIOT GREEN. I am in partnership with my father, the last witness—I recognise the prisoners Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell—I was present when they called and ordered clothes, in April, 1872—there was a third person with them who I never saw afterwards—I should think I might say that I saw Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell at Savile Row nearly twenty times—I am perfectly certain they are the persons—the third person gave no name or address.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I saw them on 4th May; I saw Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell, and to the best of my belief a third person, another third person.

Re-examined. I have no belief as to who that third person was.

ROBERT FENWICK. I am now, and was in May last year, the sub agent of the Bank of England at the Western Branch in Burlington Gardens—Mr. Green was a customer of oars at that time— "I recollect his coming to the Bank on 4th May with a strange person; it was the prisoner Austin Bidwell—he was introduced by Mr. Green as Mr. Warren, an American gentleman, who had a considerable amount of money which he wanted taken care of—I inquired of Austin Bidwell his name, and he said "Warren"—the signature-book was produced, this is it, and he wrote this "F. A. Warren"—I asked him to write his name in full, and he then wrote "Frederick Albert Warren"—they are both here—he gave his address "Golden Cross Hotel"—he wrote that himself—I asked him how I should describe him; he did not give me an answer exactly at once; he then gave me to understand that he was over here on business—I can't remember his exact words—he said he had acted more as an agent for others than for himself—I said "Then shall I describe you as a commission agent?" and he said "Yes"—I entered his description in our ledger—he opened the account with a sum of 1, 200l.—I gave him a cheque-book—the numbers in it were Q R 16, 501 to 16, 550, to bearer—this credit-slip was made out at the time; I wrote it in his presence—I said a pass-book should be prepared for him, and be ready when he called—I believe he afterwards called for it—he said he should have more money to pay in, and he asked me if it must come through Mr. Green—I told him that was not necessary—after that I did not transact much business with him myself—I remember seeing him on 17th January this year, at the Bank, in the agent's room—Colonel Francis, the agent and manager, was there at the time—after a little conversation about various incidental matters, he threw down this bill of Rothschild's for 4, 500l. on the agent's table, and said "There, I suppose that is good enough paper for you"—he spoke on that occasion about his business, about sleeping cars; he said that he hoped to see the sleeping-cars introduced shortly abroad, so that our English tourists might use them in going to the Exhibition at Vienna—he also stated that he had the choice of three different factories at Birmingham, and that he was going there at once, and he hoped to commence business by the 1st February—he mentioned also a patent break, and also a signal light for placing in front of the engines—when he put down the bill, he asked to have it discounted—Colonel Fraser acceded to his request—that was a genuine bill, and was subsequently paid—his account continued at the Bank until 1st March—I think his passbook was sent to him once before that; we never received it back—when it was sent to him it contained all the paid cheques up to the date of making up the pass-book, as is our custom—we have some credit-slips here made out in his handwriting, between May and August, 1872—it is the practice for a customer to sign when he receives a cheque-book—Warren received two cheque-books; he received the second on 3rd January—that was one hundred cheques, payable to order, Nos. Q Q 82, 801 to 82, 900—I have the cheque signature-book here, with his signature, "F. A. Warren" on both occasions, 4th May, 1872, and 3rd January, 1873—we put down the letters and numbers of the cheque in the book.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. When he was first introduced to me he mentioned his address as the Golden Cross Hotel as well as wrote it—I have that book here—these are my initials, to certify that I saw him write it—I did not make inquiries at the Golden Cross—I wrote out the first credit-slip; it is amongst these—it is all my writing—Bank of England notes, 1,000l., coin 3l., drafts, cheques, &c., 197l.;" that was one cheque on the Continental Bank for 197l.—that was the amount he paid in on that day—I next received money from him on 13th May—I did not myself see him write these credit slips—they are paid in over the counter in the ordinary way of business—I am speaking to them from the knowledge I have of his handwriting, from seeing him write his signature in the book—I saw him write in the stamped cheque-book on the same occasion, on 4th May—this second column is not for the address; it is in case it is given to some other person than has an account—I was not present when these credit-slips were handed in with the accounts—I can't exactly say whether I saw him in June last year—I do not recollect his speaking to me in June about closing his account at our bank; I don't recollect it at all—to the best of my belief he did not; I am not aware that he ever spoke to me on that subject—I will swear that he did not speak to me about closing his account during last year, nor did I advise him not to close it—I never remember his speaking to me about closing it—it is such a common thing for persons to say that when their balance is low, but I don't remember it at all—his balance was low at the end of May—I did not see him write this other signature in our signature-book—the Golden Cross is the only address he gave us—I did not give him the pass-book myself—I am not sure that it is known exactly who gave it to him—the first time it was sent on by post to Birmingham—I did not send it; it was sent by the passbook clerk.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. On the 3rd of January, 1873, we gave him the second cheque-book—he then had a balance of 3, 600l.—it was on the 17th of January that the genuine bill was offered for discount—including the discounted bill for 4, 580l., his balance was then about 3, 800l.—on the same day he drew out 1, 500l. by a cheque payable to self—the balance of 3, 800l. was after he had drawn that out at the close of the day—after 17th January, the first bills offered for discount were three on the 22nd of January, amounting to 4, 250l.—we received them by post—those are alleged to be some of the forged bills.

PEREGRINE MADGWICK FRANCIS. I am the agent at the Western Branch of the Bank of England in Burlington Gardens—I entered upon my duties as agent on the 3rd of June, 1872—I was afterwards absent on leave from the 27th of July to the 28th August—up to that time I had not seen the customer named Warren—I first saw him there on the 3rd of September, it was the prisoner Austin Biron Bidwell—he brought some Portuguese bonds, and asked me to take care of them for him, the nominal value of them was 8,000l.—Mr. Fenwick introduced him to me as Mr. Warren—he sat down in my room—in the course of conversation he told me generally what he had come over to England for; he said that he had come over to introduce sundry American inventions, first and foremost among which was the sleeping oars, and some other inventions, but that was the principal one—he also spoke about a steam break, and I asked him some particulars about it which he declined to tell me, as it was a secret—he said he hoped to have the cars running on the line between Paris and Vienna, so that all the visitors at the forthcoming Exhibition might make use of them, and that no country in future would be able to do without them; that he hoped afterwards to introduce a Company for the same purpose into England, and that then he hoped to have a good account at the Branch—but I understood him to say that at that time he was simply wishing to introduce them on this foreign line, from Paris to Vienna—he said he was going to work at Birmingham—I don't think anything more was said about Birmingham at that time; that was the substance of the conversation— "he told me that he came from America, and there was no doubt of it—the sleeping ears are American cars—I undertook to take charge of the 8,000l. Portuguese bonds for him, and filled up one of our forms and he signed it in my presence—this is it—it is simply a request to hold, it is an office voucher for us, he signed it in my presence: "London, 3rd September, 1872. The cashiers of the Bank receive and hold the undermentioned securities amounting to 8,000l. on account of F. A. Warren. Securities, 43 Portuguese 3 per cent, amount 8,000."—on 4th of September I saw him again, he brought some more 3 per cent Portuguese bonds, 4,000l. nominal value—he said that he wished to have the whole sold, and he fixed a limit upon them, 41 3/4 I think it was.—I undertook to sell them for him—I wrote out one of our usual requests and he signed it in my presence; "4th September, 1872. To the agent of the Bank of England, Western Branch. Sir, please sell 12,000 Portuguese 3 per cent., at a limit of 41 3/4 per cent. 12,000l. F. A. Warren. "Those were ordered to be sold for the account—that was near the market-price at that time, it was a very close calculation—on the 9th of September I saw him again—the account days are in the middle and end of the month—he called on me on the 9th, before the account day—he asked me to give him an advance of 2,000l. on those bonds—I do not remember that he mentioned why he wanted it—I made him the advance from that date up to the account day, up to the time of the sale—he signed this paper in my presence: "London, 9th, September, 1872. To the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. I request that you will advance to me at the rate of 4 1/2 per cent, per annum, the sum of 2,000l., upon the undermentioned securities, which advance I engage to repay on the 13th instant. Signed, F. A. Warren. Portuguese 3 per cent, bonds, 12,000l.; and in case the said security should not be redeemed at the above period, I hereby authorise you to sell the same and repay the advance thereon. "This is filled up in my own handwiting, it is quite in the ordinary form—it was signed by him in my presence and he was credited with the 2,000l.—the bonds were sold and realised 5,025l., that went to his account on 14th September—I did not see him at all times that he came into the bank, it was not necessary, but I certainly saw him on the 29th of November, and I may have seen him on the 26th—he then brought me two bills on Suse and Sibeth, for 500l. each, and asked me if I would discount them for him—these are the two bills, they are drawn by Isidore Hess and accepted Suse and Sibeth, dated the 31st of October, 1872, at three months, drawn at Ferrara, payable in London—they were due on the 3rd February and were paid—he asked me whether I would discount these bills for him—I said I must inquire about them first and see—I took them down to the City and got permission to discount them for him—they were discounted on the 29th of November—I saw Austin Bidwell on that day—I am not sure whether he brought those bills in on the 26th or 29th—they might have been discounted after he left—I did not see him after I had been to the City about them—he said he might ask us to discount a few more bills of the same character—these bills for 500l. each were discounted, and the amount, less discount, was placed to his credit—they were due on the 3rd of February and were paid in due course—I saw him again on the 23rd of December—he then told me he was going to Birmingham about his workshops, and so on, and would send us a few bills of the same stamp as those we had had from Birmingham—I think I gave him to understand that I would wait till I saw the bills—he then left, and on the 30th, which was Monday, I think I received this letter from him, dated the 28th of December, which contained a memorandum of these ten bills (produced) which agreed with the memorandum sent with the letter—(Read: "28th December, 1872. To Col. P. M. Francis, Bank of England, Western Branch. Sir—Enclosed I hand you bills for discount as per accompanying memorandum, will you please to place the bills to my account and oblige yours faithfull.

F. A. WARREN. P.S. I have been delaying to send you these bills in expectation of the lowering of the rate; however as I have given cheques to day overdrawing my account, you will please place this to my credit.") (The bills enclosed amounted to 4, 307l. 4s. 6d.) Those were all genuine bilk, I discounted them and they were all paid at maturity—the proceeds of the discount was put to Warren's account, and I did not see him again till some time in January, the 17th I think, but I am not quite sure whether I saw him on the 6th, I think I did—the balance standing to his credit at the end of the year was 3, 604l. 13s. 3d.—on the 17th of January I saw him in my own room, he brought a bill with rather a flourish, put it down on the table in an off-hand sort of a way, and said "There, I suppose that will be good enough paper for you"—it was on Rothschild'sfor 4, 500l.—I looked at it, saw that it was genuine, and discounted it for him—up to that time, including that bill and the two bills in November, I discounted genuine bills for him to the amount of 9, 807l. 3s. 6d.—in the list of bills I discounted to the end of December there is an acceptance by Mr. Gillman, and the next time I saw Warren I said that we had made enquiries about that bill and we did not want to have a larger amount upon that acceptor; the bill was a good bill, but the bank held sufficient on that acceptor—it was not an objection to Mr. Gillman—it was a Manchester bill—our rule is not always to take London bills, the bank holds from various parties—after that we never got another acceptance of Mr. Gillman's sent to us—after we had discounted Rothschild's bill on 17th January, the account was partly drawn against, and on the night of 21st January the balance standing to Warren's account was 47l. 4s. 6d.—on that night I noticed that Austin Bidwell looked exceedingly ill, and he told me he had had a bad fall from his horse; he did not tell me how it occurred—that was the last time I saw him till he was in custody at the Mansion House—on 22nd January I received this letter, containing this memorandum, and three bills, in a registered letter from Birmingham—the bills amount to 4, 250l.—the letter is, I believe, in Warren's writing and signed by him, and the bills are, I should say, undoubtedly endorsed by him—all the genuine bills are endorsed by him. (Letter read:"Birmingham, 21st January, 1873. Dear Sir,—I hand you herewith, as per enclosed, memorandum bills for discount, the proceeds of which please place to my credit. F. A. Warren. Memorandum of acceptances paid into the Bank of England, Western Branch: acceptance of the London and Westminster Bank, due March 23rd, 1,000l. International Bank of Hamburg and London, April 11th, 2,050l. Bank of Belgium and Holland, Limited, 1,000l.; total 4,050l.") (The bill which was the subject of the Indictment was here read: "Valparaiso, November 6th, 1872, drawn by H. C. Streeter on the London and Westminster Bank, at three months after sight, in favour of Messrs. Berenberg, Gosler & Co., Hamburg, for 1,000l. Accepted 28th December, 1872, by the subcountry manager of the London and Westminster Bank, H, F, Billinghurst, and W. H. Nicholls pro Secretary. "Endorsed" F. A. Warren," and "Berenberg, Gosler & Co.") Three of the acceptances on three of the bills are the same as three in the batch of 7th December; they purport to be the same acceptors—those bills were discounted and the account credited with the amount—they were presented when they became due on 31st March, 3rd April, and 14th April, and were returned as forged—on 22nd January, I recieved from Birmingham this registered letter and memorandum of bills, dates, and amounts—I do not undertake to say that the letter is in Warren's writing—I do not think it is his signature, but I should say that it is an imitation of it—I took it at the time as Warren's signature, having no suspicion—the endorsement on the eight bills, is, I should say, an imitation of his, there are certain little characteristics wanting—I took them at the time as his endorsement, and they were discounted and Warren's account was credited with the amount. (MR. MCINTYRE objected to the reception of this evidence, as, if there was an imitation of Warren's writing, there might also be forged letters written to withdraw the amount, and that the letter was not shown to have been brought to Warren's knowledge, THE COURT considered that it would be a question for the Jury whether it was done by Warren's authority.) The bills amounted to 9, 350l., which amount was placed to the account on the 25th—two of the bills are acceptances of Rothschild, similar to the one on 17th January, and two bills are acceptances of Blydenstein, similar to the genuine bills sent up at the end of December—there was also an acceptance on the Anglo-Austrian Bank, similar to the one sent up at the end of December—there was also an acceptance of Suse and Sibeth, similar to the acceptance to the two bills which Austin Bidwell gave me at the end of November—the stamp and acceptance are the same, "Accepted at Martin & Co."s—there is also an acceptance of the London and Westminster Bank, similar to the one on the Lucardie bill sent up at the end of December, where the words are "sub-country man."—the last is on the International Bank of Hamburg and London, which is similar to one of the bills sent up to the end of December. (Letter read: "Birmingham, 24th January, 1873. To Col P. M. Francis, Manager, W. B. B. of England. Dear Sir,—Enclosed I hand you bills for discount as per enclosed memo., and which please have placed to my credit on receipt. The reduction in Bank rate came quite opportunely for my wants. Signed, F. A. Warren." "Memorandum of acceptances deposited in the Bank of England by F. A. Warren with a list of the various eight bills and the amounts." (There were originally ten bills, but two, for 750l and 800l., were struck out, and the total which was originally 10,900l. was reduced to 9,350l. The 9, 850l. represents the amount of the eight bills—on 4th February I received this letter dated Birmingham, 3rd February, enclosing eleven bills amounting to 11,072l. 18s. 6d.—I discounted them, and Warren's account was credited with that amount—the signature to that letter is very bad indeed; it is cot so good as many of the others, not so like his signature—I passed it at the time as his signature, but now looking at it, with my present experience, I say that it is a bad imitation—the signature to the bills is a better imitation than the letter, if it is an imitation—there is an indecision about the signatures to the bills which makes them very doubtful but I passed them at the time—the letter was registered; all the letters that came from Birmingham were registered. (The acceptances enclosed were one of Rothschild's, on of the Bank of Belgium and Holland, one of the Anglo-Austrian Bank, one of the International Bank of Hamburg and London, one of Blydensteiris and one of Baring Brotlwrs.) The bill for 2, 500l. on the International Bank of Hamburg and London, Limited, was refused payment beyond 25l., it having been altered from 25l. to 2, 500l., and all the other bills were returned as forgeries—(Letter read: "Birmingham, 3rd February, 1873. Dear Sir,—I did not duly acknowledge your esteemed favour of the 24th of January, as I daily expected to come to the City, but do not find myself yet able for the journey, still suffering greatly from my fall, or rather its effects; but I hope to see you before long. Please direct as last, as I am staying with a friend a short distance out of town. Letters will reach me directed to this office. I enclose you bills as per mems, of which please place the value to my credit on receipt. Yours faithfully, F. A. Warren.") I acknowledged the receipt of those bills by writing to "F. A. Warren, Post Office, Birmingham"—on 10th February I received this registered letter, dated 8th February, and this memorandum—it enclosed two bills, the amount of which was 4, 642l. 19s. 4d.—(Letter read: "Birmingham, 8th February, 1873. Dear Sir,—Your favour of the 4th, acknowledging receipt of bills, mailed 3rd instant, came duly to hand. Enclosed I hand you bills and memorandums, proceeds of which place to my credit on receipt, and accept assurances, &c. Yours faithfully, F. A. Warren. Mem. of bills sent on 8th February, total, 4, 642l. 19s. 4d.") Those two bills were presented at maturity, and returned as forged—I had discounted them, and credited the, account with them on 10th February—on 13th February I received this letter and a batch of bills, amounting to 14, 696l. 16s. 2d., which were discounted, and the amount placed to the credit of the account—(Read: "Birmingham, 12th February, 1873. Dear Sir,—Enclosed I hand you bills for discount as per memorandums herewith. Please have proceeds placed to credit of my account on receipt. Yours faithfully, F. A. Warren. P. S. My dear Sir,—The mail was so near closing when I wrote my last that I did not have the time to make a proper acknowledgment of your good wishes in my behalf, as expressed in the P. S. of yours of the 24th inst., and I now take occasion to return you my sincere thanks, and to inform you that I am gradually but slowly recovering, and also am succeeding thus far in matters of business to my wish. Yours faithfully, F. A. W. Yours of 10th duly received.") Those bills were presented in due course, and returned as forgeries—on 21st February I received this registered letter and memorandum, and sixteen bills, amounting to 14, 686l. 15s. 4d., which were discounted, and the account credited with them—the bills were presented and returned as forgeries—(Bead: "Birmingham, 20th February, 1873. Dear Sir,—Enclosed I hand you bills, with mems., for discount, proceeds of which please place to the credit of my account on receipt. Yours faithfully, F. A. Warren. Colonel P. M. Francis, manager. P. S. My dear Sir,—I am happy to inform you that my doctor reports me as doing finely, with the prospect, should no drawback occur, of resuming my active life again in a few days. Under these circumstances I hope soon to have the pleasure of seeing you, and in the meantime, I remain, dear Sir, yours obliged, F. A. Warren.") On 25th February I received this registered letter and memorandum, and bills amounting to 19, 253l. 10s. 3d.—I discounted them, and credited the account with them—they were presented in due course, and returned as forgeries—(Read: "Birmingham, 24th Feb., 1873. Dear Sir,—Enclosed I hand you memorandum with bills for discount, the proceeds of which please place to my credit on receipt, &c. F. A. Warren.") I also produce a registered letter from Birmingham, dated 27th February, which contained, I think, twenty-four bills, amounting to 26, 265l.—I discounted all but two of them, and on 28th February credited the account with 24, 265l.—the two I omitted to discount were two which purported to bear the acceptance of Blydenstein for 1,000l. each, payable three months after sight, but the date of the acceptance was omitted; they were not sighted, but the stamp was on them—they were sent to Blydenstein on the 28th, to be sighted, and were returned as forgeries—the remaining portion of that batch, the 24,000l. odd, were presented in due course, and returned as forgeries—(Letter read:"Birmingham, 27th February, 1873. Dear Sir,—Enclosed I hand you memo, with bills for discount, proceeds of which please place to the credit of my account on receipt. I have yours of 25 ackg. rect. of bills sent on 24th. Yours faithfully, F. A. Warren. P. S. My dear Sir,—I take this opportunity of thanking you for the trouble you have taken in my behalf in making special application to the Bank Committee about the AngloAustrian and Russian Bank bills. I have some of each, to amount of about 6,000l., and shall either get two endorsements on them or return them to my friends. Accept, dear Sir, the assurance of my esteem, while I remain yours faithfully, F. A. W.") The custom is to return the cancelled cheques in the pass-book—when the discovery was made with regard to the two Blydenstein bills there were certain cheques which had not been returned—these cheques (produced) which have been paid but not returned are all out of the book delivered on 13th January—there are eleven here, they are all out of the second cheque-book, and they are all drawn to order—they are not all the same number, they follow on—they agree with the chequebook delivered, and are all signed "F. A. Warren."

MR. MCINTYRE. Q. Is the filling up his? A. I cannot say, but the signature I have no doubt about; I have studied it a good deal, and I know all the peculiarities of his signature now—I have seen him write three times, but only his signature; on those occasions the forms were filled up by somebody else and signed by him—I think those are the only times I have seen him write—I judge from that and from our signature-book also, which was signed in Mr. Fenwick's presence.

Examination-in-chief continued. If the cashiers have any doubt, they refer to the signature-book before paying cheques—Bills read: "19th February, 1873, for 2,000l. in favour of Clark & Co., or order, endorsed —˜Clark & Co, 'and 'Jay Cooke, McCulloch & Co. '—20th February, 1873, for 4, 500l. in favour of C. J. Heorton, endorsed —˜C. J. Heorton; and again —˜C. J. Horton, 'with a memorandum in a corner, 'Endorsement irregular'—20th February, 1873, for 6, 300l. in favour of C. J. Horton, endorsed 'C. J, Horton'—21st February, 1873, for 2, 100l. in favour of J. C. Mitchell, originally 'or order, 'but altered and made payable to bearer, initialled by the drawer and endorsed 'J. C. Mitchell'—22nd February, 1873, for 3, 500l. in favour of and endorsed by Messrs. Clark & Co.—24th February, 1873, for 10,000l. in favour of and endorsed by C. J. Horton—25th February for 6,000l. in favour of Thomas Carter, and endorsed 'Thomas Carter' and 'C. J. Horton'—27th February for 10,000l. in favour of and endorsed by Messrs. Clark & Co.—27th February for 5,000l. in favour of W. R. Graham, originally 'or order, 'but made payable to bearer, endorsed 'W. R. Graham '—27th February, another for 7, 500l. altered from —˜order, 'to bearer, 'to C. J. Horton; crossed on the face, —˜Jay Cooke McCulloch & Co. '—28th February, 2, 500l. in favour of and endorsed by C. J. Horton, and crossed 'Continental Bank.' "Those are all the cheques I have left of Warren's—when the account was debited with those cheques, the balance standing to Warren's account was 1, 859l. 16s. 10d. without the last cheque for 2, 500l. which was not paid—the total amount of money drawn out after the 22nd January, when the first lot of forged bills came in was 100, 405l. 7s. 3d.—the total amount of bills returned as forged was 102, 217l. 19s. 7d.—I have got an accurate copy of the accounts from the ledger, and the ledger is here, showing the whole account, including Warren's account from the 4th of May to the time of the discovery—the cheques drawn and paid are entered on the day they are paid.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. The amount of everything paid in to his credit up to the close of December is 17, 504l. 19s. 4d.—the amount paid in actual cash was a little over 8,000l., including the Portuguese Bonds and deducting the bills discounted—I am wrong; we only discounted 5, 300l. in bills to December, and 12, 200l. would be the amount paid in in actual cash and securities—all the bills I discounted up to December were genuine, and 4, 500l. was discounted on 17th January for Rothschild's, which was paid—that was the only one paid after December.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I have been the manager of a bank about thirteen years—I was in the Army before that—I was sub-agent for a bank at Leeds, agent at Hull, and afterwards at the Western Branch—I entered on my duties at the Western Branch on 3rd March, 1872—I was sub-agent and agent to the Bank of England—I succeeded Mr. Pimm—I did not go over the accounts with him; I bad a sub-manager, who could give me all the information—we have the addresses of every customer in our books—my attention was called to Warren's account at the close of August, on my return from leave on the 29th—I did not go through the account—an ordinary drawing account would not be allowed to be overdrawn, and it would not matter where his address was—the only address I had was the Golden Cross Hotel—he was simply described in the ledger as a commission agent, at that address—that is in the ledger—I did not make inquiries at the Golden Cross Hotel about him—the account commenced with a payment of 1, 200l. in the way that has been described—I have only a list of bills and the account—a great portion of the account was withdrawn on my return in August; the balance must have been under 100l. at the end of August; it was about 39l.—he paid in on the 26th and 27th August 200l. altogether—the account stood at 219l. on 3rd September—page 155 of the depositions shows both sides of the account—on 3rd September he brought 8,000l. of Portuguese Bonds—I did not then make inquiries as to his address—he gave me no address at Birmingham, except "Post Office, Birmingham"—the Portuguese Bonds were sold, and we placed the amount to his credit on 14th September—he drew out upon that account by a cheque to Jay Cook of 3,030l. 12s. 6d., which you will see in the account on the 14th—it must hare been the old cheque-book—I discounted these bills on 29th November—they were dated 31st October, and were Suse and Sibbeth's; two bills of 500l.—I cannot tell whether it was the 26th or 29th when he asked me to discount them; I am doubtful whether it was on the 26th or 29th I saw him—I cannot recollect if I discounted the bills the same day I saw him—I did tell him I would make inquiries about them—I did so, at my head office only—the balance in his favour then was 1, 658l.—the two bills I discounted are here—they were payable in London—I did not make inquiries at the place in the City where they were payable; that would not be usual—I cannot say what I led him to believe—from what they said at my head office in answer to my inquiries I discounted the bills—I am not aware if I saw him between the 29th November and the 23rd December—I received on 30th December a letter of the 28th, containing some bills—all his bills received before 21st January were genuine, and paid at maturity—I wrote to him at the Post Office, Birmingham at his request, and only there—the bills were acknowledged—the Bank of England has a branch at Birmingham—the first letter I received from Warren was the one containing the batch of bills which were discounted on 30th December—I had no letter from him between 28th December and 21st January, 1873, nor before 28th December—the letter of 21st January did not strike me as being different from that of 28th December—it is somewhat different—there, is a general similarity between all the letters after the 21st January, which, without suspicion being excited, would not attract attention—I believed all the' letters to be in the handwriting of Warren—I cannot say when I changed my opinion, but it was after a process of study—I do not know anything about Mr. Chabot; I have only seen him to speak to him quite lately—I do not know that the documents were submitted to him—I see that the letter of 21st January is much more cramped—the signature is larger than the body of the letter—it appears to be written with the same ink— with my present knowledge I would not say that the letter is in the handwriting of Warren—I do not say that the signature was written at the same time—I think the signature is Warren's—the colour of the ink is very much like the colour of the ink in the writing; it looks pretty much the same colour—the signature is not a stiff writing; I think it is quite as free a signature as those in the other letters; look at the two "r's"—I don't know that it was after the last examination that I changed my opinion as to these other letters being in Warren's handwriting; I don't know when the last examination was about handwriting—I don't know that it was when I found he was not in this country at the time these letters were written from Birmingham that I changed my opinion—I did not learn that for a considerable time—it may have been so; first of all I thought they were his writing, and afterwards I thought not—I did afterwards find from inquiry that he was out of the country at the time those letters bear date—I also compared the writing—it may possibly have been one thing that made me change my opinion; I don't think that was altogether the reason that made me change my opinion in the first instance; very likely that induced me to make further comparison of the letters—the indorsements on the bills after 21st January are much more like his signature than a great many of his writings that I have seen—I think they are not his writing—I believe the indorsements on these three bills that came in the letter of 21st January are in Warren's writing—I don't know whether these signatures have been submitted to Mr. Chabot—these indorsements have all the little peculiarities of his signature—I don't think they are suffer than the signature to his letter of 28th December; I think they are written freely—there are several peculiarities, and one is in the stroke of the "f" and the crossing in the stroke of the "f"; he never joins the crossing of the stroke of the "f" to the crossing—I have had that peculiarity pointed out to me; not by Mr. Chabot—it was not my own discovery in the first instance—when he was with me on 17th January he certainly looked very ill—I don't think he was ever at the bank after that day, I never saw him—the stamp of the London and Westminster Bank on the bill which is the subject of this indictment, is about the same as on the genuine bill we had—I don't think it is exactly like the other bills we had of theirs, there is a peculiarity in the stamp; here is a "B in the word bank not finished, that is a peculiarity that might easily have escaped in finishing the stamp—I noticed it at the time—I made inquiries to this extent, that all the bills for a very considerable period were shown at headquarters previously to being discounted; I either took or sent them to the head-office to see whether I should discount them before they were discounted—I was discounting to a very great extent, from 21st January to 28th February upwards of 100,000l., for a man whose only address was "Post-office, Birmingham"—we have not many of those sort of things in our bank—the bills came in very sharp indeed after the 21st January— all these bills were submitted to head-quarters, and his address also; the bills were of a very first-rate class, and I suppose stood upon their own merits—from 14th May up to the end of December everything I did for him, including discounting bills, was 17,000l.; but in this one month, from 21st January to 28th February, I did bills to the amount of upwards of 100,000l.—I made no inquiries at Birmingham and caused none to be made—the cheques commence on 19th February, the pass-book left the bank on 17th February—our post-book shows that it was dispatched on that day, it was sent by post to "Post-office, Birmingham"—I don't know whether that was in answer to any communication; I don't find any written request among his letters; it is not unusual to send a man's pass-book periodically—that address had always found him—I have no memorandum showing under what circumstances I sent it—the ledger has a mark in it on 17th February which shows it was sent; my chief clerk informed me that it was sent on 17th February—he is not here—it is usual to put a sort of mark in the ledger, the date up to which the account is made when the pass-book is sent—it would be in the post-book, the letter clerk would enter it in his post-book as dispatched—there would be no account of the circumstances under which it was sent; the request may have been a verbal one, but I don't know anything of it, I find nothing in writing about it, I have searched to see—I have produced all the papers that purport to come from Warren, they have been produced here to-day—I did not myself take the bills of Blydenstein over to their office on 28th February—they went down by a clerk who goes to the City; he generally goes about 1.30 or so—those cheques that were crossed would be paid through a banker in the regular way, and the others over the counter; those for 2, 500l. and 700l. are both crossed.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I speak to the signature of the cheques, not the filling up; I won't undertake to say whose writing the filling up is—two of the cheques have been altered from "order" to "bearer," with initials; I cannot speak to those initials—they are apparently not in the same handwriting as the signature; that, no doubt, escaped my attention at the time; I can't say they are in the same handwriting, apparently they are not.

Re-examined. The discounts became larger after the 17th—in the conversation on the 17th, Austin Bidwell said, that he hoped to have his work shops in full operation by 1st February—that was on the same occasion when he brought Rothschild's bill—I had no doubt of the genuineness of the bills at the time.

HENRY FARNCOMB BILLINGHURST. I am sub-country manager of the London and Westminster Bank, at the head office in Lothbury—I am the submanager of the country office that includes foreign bills; everything that is not London—this bill, purporting to be drawn by Streeter & Ca, of Valparaiso, upon and accepted by the London and Westminster Bank, is a forgery so far as the acceptance is concerned—I never saw Mr. Streeter's signature; I know nothing of any such transaction—the signature to it, "H. F. Billinghurst," is not my writing; it is a bad imitation of it—this is not the signature of Mr. Nichols, it is an imitation of it—the stamp is an imitation of our stamp—it stops at the words "man. "and "secret," that was the same with our stamp at one time; the block under the stamp was failing just at the end; it was not done on purpose, the stamp itself has the completion of "bank" and "manager," and so on, but the block underneath, upon which it is stamped, gave way at one time—this (produced) is a genuine bill accepted by us, this is my signature, it has the same defects of the stamp—here are other bills purporting to be acceptances of the London and Westminster Bank, they are all forgeries—none of the supposed drawers have accounts with us.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I presume this name on Streeter's bill is intended for Billinghurst, it could be made so, there is an "i" and two "l's,"—I should never mistake it for my writing, I say it is a bad imitation of it—it is an imitation certainly.

WHITFORD HENRY NICHOLS. I am a clerk in the London and Westminster Bank—I at times sign acceptances for the secretary when required to do so—the acceptance to this bill of Streeter, purports to be signed by Mr. Billinghurst and me, they are forgeries; this is not my signature, it is a very fair imitation of it, but a very bad one of Mr. Billinghurst's—these all purport to be signed by me, but I have not signed any of them, nor do I know the drawers' names, they are all forgeries—they all have the stamp of the London and Westminster Bank—the stamp is always put on the bills we accept and send to the London and Westminster Bank—we have many thousands of these bills in the course of a month, and that was so last year—we gave no authority to anyone to sign our names.

JOHN RUDOLPH LORENT. I am manager of the Bank of Belgium and' Holland, Limited—these bills (produced) purport to be accepted by our bank and signed by us, the signature is not ours—this is an imitation of our stamp and of my signature—I gave no authority to any person to put my name on any of these bills—I sign as manager, and Mr. H. Holman Shuman as sub-manager—this is not his signature, but an imitation of it—these (produced) are two of the genuine acceptances, with the genuine stamp and signatures on both.

Cross-examined by M. MCINTYRE. We accept hundreds of bills in a month—this is a very bad imitation of my signature, and this is very little like Mr. Shuman's signature—the stamp is copied from our office stamp, and is like the stamp of our genuine bills, of which we have hundreds a month.

HERMAN GWINNER. I am managing director of the International Bank of Hamburg in London—the signature to these eleven bills is not mine—the form of acceptance is like that adopted at my bank—the bill A 95 is not the signature of Mr. Falk, the sub-manager—this (produced) is a genuine acceptance of the bank—I do not see what the paper has to do with it.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. The drawers find the paper, we do not make it a sine qua non that they shall all use the same paper—Mr. Falk and I always sign bills, and hundreds of our acceptances are out—they are all stamped—these are bad imitations—this mil, No. 177, was drawn in the Brazils—it was originally 25l., it is now 2, 500l.—it is all written in straight "twenty-five hundred."

Re-examined. The "hundred pounds" is in different writing, the "und" of "pound" has been used to make "hundred," and there are two cyphers after the 25.

ALFRED CHARLES DE ROTHSCHILD. I am a member of the firm of N. M. Rothschild & Son—I have examined this bill—the acceptance "N. M. Rothschild" is not in my writing, or that of any of the firm—the stamp across the bill is an imitation of ours—this (produced) is a genuine London bill of Sir Antony de Rothschild for 4, 500l.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. The genuine bill was drawn by our house in France on our house in London—all the members of the London firm sign the same name, but the handwriting is different—the stamp is used by a clerk in our office—this stamp is exactly like ours—if anyone had got hold of the genuine stamp, it would naturally have made the same impression as this.

Re-examined. This purports to be in the writing of Sir Antony de Rothschild, but it is a forgery, and the others are all forgeries— "they are imitations of this genuine bill, some might think them good, some might not.

CHARLES JOHN SIBETH. I am a member of the firm of Suse and Sibeth—all these bills which purport to bear the signature of our firm are forgeries—these two bills far 500l. each, discounted on 29th November, are undoubtedly genuine.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. Two partners sign bills, and three gentlemen hold our procuration—this stamp, "Accepted at Messrs. Martin & Co.," is used in our office on our genuine bills; no bill is accepted in our office without that stamp—the stamp is in the hands of a special clerk, who gets them ready for acceptance; it is in his hands in the day, and is locked up in the safe at night—other clerks might take the stamp in his absence.

FRANCIS HAMILTON. I am a member of the firm of Shipley & Co., merchants, City—these three acceptances are forgeries; they are an imitation of my signature—this (producid) is a genuine acceptance—every member of the firm signs.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I was not examined before the Lord Mayor—this is our usual stamp; it goes on all bills, whatever member of the firm signs them.

CHARLES LLOYD NORMAN. I am a member of the firm of Baring Brothers—the acceptances to all these bills are forgeries; they are imitations of the signature of our firm, and of our stamp—the bill for 1,000l. (One of the ten sent up on 10th December) is a genuine bill of our firm, and has the genuine stamp to it—the forged bills are an imitation of it in the stamp and signature.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. If I saw the stamp alone I should not know whether it was an impression of our real stamp—there are eight members of our firm, they all sign the name of the firm.

Re-examined. The stamp is an excellent imitation, but I have not compared the two.

FREDERICK MOYERN. I am a clerk in the Russian Bank of Foreign Trade—I know the signature of Mr. Sperth, the manager—this is not his signature, but it is the form of acceptance used at our bank—this other bill (produced) bears our genuine signature.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. Two signatures are always required, Mr. Sperth'a and the deputy manager's, Mr. Fuerst, and in his absence I sign—the forged bill pretends to be signed by me—it has a stamp on it.

JOSEPH TUSSAUD BYNG. I am assistant to the manager of the Union Bank of London—these eight bills are not genuine.

WILLIAM HENRY TRUMPLER. I am a partner in the firm of B. W. Blydenstein—these bills are not genuine—this one (produced) is a genuine bill.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. There are three members in the firm, and they all sign the name of the firm.

COLONEL FRANCIS (recalled). The letter which came on 13th December was a registered letter.

JOSIAH WINSPEAR. I am a waiter at the Queen's Hotel, Birmingham—I know George Bidwell—I have seen him twice at the Queen's Hotel—I last saw him there about the middle of February—he occupied a private room—on the second occasion I found the sitting-room door locked.

Cross-examined by MR. POWELL. The Queen's is a large hotel, accommodating a little over 100 guests—there was nothing that attracted my attention to the prisoner besides the door being locked, and that was in February last—I was spoken to about this matter about March—I believe it was the fore part of March—Mr. Stevenson spoke to me, one of Mr. Freshfiejd's clerks—he spoke to me in the coffee-room—he asked me if I saw such a gentleman, and what I tell you is the result of what I told him—George Bidwell had a dark overcoat on and a light-coloured scarf, almost a white scarf, and a satchel, or sort of travelling-bag, over his shoulder—that is not an unusual custom in Birmingham—I noticed he was a kind of foreigner-looking gentleman—there are a great many gentlemen of that description in Birmingham—I did not notice anything except that.

ALFRED MORLEY. I am a cab proprietor at Birmingham—I know George Bidwell—I first saw him on or about the 20th February—I took him in my cab from the Queen's Hotel to the post-office at Birmingham—he gave me. a note to fetch a letter, and a 2s. piece to buy a shilling stamp—there was an address written on the piece of paper, and I was to ask for a letter to that address—I did so—he sat in my cab while I went in—there was one letter for him at the post-office—I gave it to the prisoner and drove him back to the Queen's Hotel—he paid me 1s. 2 1/2 d.—he said that was all the change he had got—I noticed he spoke with a foreign accent—I should judge him to be a Yankee—I saw him again, about two or three hours after, get out of another cab—Barker was the driver—I spoke to Barker at the time about it.

Cross-examined by MR. POWELL. That was on or about 20th February—the next time I saw him after that day was at the Mansion House; I don't remember when that was, it was two months afterwards, I daresay—he was then in the dock at the Mansion House—I came from Birmingham myself—I was sent for by Mr. Freshfield—I saw one of Mr. Freshfield's clerks before I left Birmingham—there were two persons in the dock when I saw him—the other was Hills—my stand is usually in the path leading to the Queen's Hotel—I take my stand there daily, and have done for about seven years—some days I don't drive one person from the Queen's Hotel in the course of the day—I do not frequently drive persons coming out from the Queen's Hotel—I stand at the Queen's Hotel, but I very seldom get a job there—there are railway cabs that get the jobs there—I stand outside the gates, opposite the statue—I saw the prisoner coming out of the hotel—it is not five minutes' drive from the hotel to the post-office the whole time he was under my observation was about a quarter of an hour—my observation was while he was getting in, while he was speaking to me, and when he got out again, and I saw him two hoars after get out of Barker's cab.

JOSIAH WINSPEAR (re-called). The next time I saw the prisoner was in the dock at the Mansion House after I had seen him at the hotel—there was only one other person in the dock with him, who I recognise now as the prisoner Hills.

JOHN BARKER. I am a cab-driver at Birmingham—I drive one of the cabs allowed to go into the premises of the London and North Western Railway—on or about the 20th of February, I had George Bidwell in my cab, and I saw Hills also the same day—I remember the last witness speaking to me—I took George Bidwell from the Queen's Hotel to the postoffice—I pulled up at the door, and he told me to get off my box—I got down, and he handed me a large letter, and told me to register it, and anything more to pay I was to pay it—it was stamped—I went and registered it, and I brought out the receipt to him, he folded it up very small, and tore it up in very small pieces—there was nothing extra to pay upon the letter, the stamps were sufficient—I then drove him back to the Queen's Yard, opposite the Queen's Hotel, and he jumped out—he did not pay me; he said he would send my fare out—he went and joined Hills, and they stood talking about a minute, perhaps—Bidwell turned round and looked at me, and went into the hotel, and Hills turned for the Railway Station, and presently one of the boots of the hotel brought me my fare out.

Cross-examined by MR. POWELL. I had not seen either of them before—this was on or about 20th February, about 3. 40—the lamps were not lighted—it was quite light at that time—I next saw them at the Mansion House—Morley and me had some conversation about it the same day, about the way he did his business—we were at the Mansion House together—I can't say whether I was in the room when he was examined—I think the first time we saw them we did not give evidence at all—I saw them on two or three days at the Mansion House—no one took me to show me them—I went in and saw the same men—I knew they were arrested—I went to the Mansion House on purpose to see them—I came up from Birmingham for that purpose, of course—I had a notice from Freshfields, and I went and saw them—I think I was examined the second journey we had up—that was some time in March, I can't speak to a week—I did not come up with Morley, I saw him when we got to London—I saw him at the Mansion

House—I believe I heard the latter part of his evidence, I was out at the door when he was called into the witness-box—we talked it over previous to hearing of any forgery—we talked about the way that Mr. Bidwell did his business—we went down once in the mail, but there were several people with us; we might have had one word, but I don't remember anything about it—that was before the examination—I have been shown a sketch—Morley might have seen it too, but not in my presence—a gentleman from London showed it to me, but I can't say who he was—he might have been a detective—that was about three weeks or a fortnight before I went to the Mansion House—I have not seen the sketch since—the person who got into my cab came out of the Queen's Hotel, and directed me to drive to the post-office—that is about 150 yards—he sat in the cab while I went into the post-office—I handed him the register receipt, and while I stood waiting for orders he was tearing up the receipt—he tore it up openly before me—he chucked the bits out of the cab, and one piece was left on the cab, it was rather wet, and he knocked it off with his umbrella or stick—there was none left in the cab—I never saw him again till I saw him at the Mansion House—I was up twice, I think, before I saw Bidwell—I came up afterwards and saw him—I have been in the same situation as cab-driver for ten years—sometimes I carry ten persons a day, perhaps twenty, perhaps five; it is very uncertain—the letter I registered was for America.

Cross-examined by MR. HOLLINGS. The Queen's Hotel is under the same roof as the station—the yard is in front of the hotel—when I drove Bidwell down there I saw Hills standing at the entrance to the station, about eight or nine yards from where he alighted from the cab—he was waiting under the arch leading to the booking-office—when Bidwell joined him they stood still about a minute, talking, and then Hills went to the station and Bidwell went into the hotel—Hills walked directly away from me—that was the only time that I saw him—I saw him for a minute and a half or two minutes—it was not raining then, but it had been—there were very few people about—if Bidwell had paid me my fare I should not have noticed the other man—I was looking after Bidwell—I believe I was up at the Mansion House first in March—it was the beginning of March—I know at that time that Hills was in custody—I went to the Mansion House to see him, but I was not examined until after Bidwell was in custody—I identified Hills—I told my friend Morley so—I did not tell anyone else—we talked it over previous to knowing anything about it.

Re-examined. I don't know to whom the letter was directed—I remember it was to America—we book the time we go out for a job, and the time we come back, every job we do, and when my attention was called to this, I found what jobs I had done—that makes me certain it was 20th February.

SEYMOUR LOUIS PINTO. (Interpreted.) I am a bill broker at Amsterdam—I recognise George Bidwell—I knew him by the name of H. E. Gilbert—I knew Messrs Citroen and Zonen at Amsterdam, gold manufacturers, they work up gold—early in November, 1872, I learnt from them that a stranger would probably call upon me, and a day or two later Mr. Gilbert called upon me—a commissionaire from the hotel came with him—he gave me the name of Gilbert, and said he had some bills in his possession which he had brought with him from Frankfort, which he wished to discount—I declined to discount them—he inquired whether he could obtain any long bills in Amsterdam or Germany—I said it was very difficult to obtain anything of the sort, as that sort of bill was very dear in Amsterdam—I told him that there were some bills on Hamburg in the market the day before, and possibly he might obtain them—he gave me an order to buy bills to the amount of about 20,000 guilders, and I was to only buy them from good houses—I asked him subsequently what he was, and he said he had some business connected with the railway works—I bought some bills for him, and the following day he called and paid me in Dutch bank notes—the day on which he paid for the first bills he gave another order to buy further bills to the same amount or rather more—those were bought and paid for in the same way—a day or two after he bought the bills there was a change in the currency, and a day or two later he came to me to sell those bills for him again—he said he had made a mistake and wished to get rid of them again—I said he would have to put up with a loss—when I went on Change I learnt the alteration in the currency and found there would be such a great loss in selling the bills that I would not do it without further orders—I explained that to him and he told me to sell the bills, that it did not matter to him, he had made such large profits on bill transactions in Frankfort that he could well afford to stand the loss, and he intended to buy something else by which he could recoup himself—the loss was from 500 to 600 guilders, about 50l. sterling—with the proceeds of those resold Hamburg bills, he instructed me to buy some fresh bills on London—he wrote the particulars on paper for me—I wrote the "F. A. Warren" at the bottom, because the "W" in "Warren" in the body of the paper was not plain enough for me to read, and I wrote it again myself—(Read: "3,000l. three months, to the order of F. A. Warren, 1,000l. sight same order.") He left after he gave that order—I suggested the name of Blydenstein and the Amsterdam Bank, because it was easy to get bills there—I bought these four bills for him. (One was drawn by Philipps, Sohne, on the Bank of Belgium and Holland for 1,000l. two for 500 of Suse and Sibeth and another for 1,000l. of the Amsterdam Bank, on the Bank of Belgium and Holland.) There was a bill of Cohen on Allard, but that was paid—I delivered those bills to George Bidwell—he paid for those with the proceeds of the Hamburg bills and there was a balance which he paid in Dutch bank notes—I saw George Bidwell four or five, or perhaps six, times—I did not see him after the transactions I have referred to—I received a letter on the 22nd of November from him, but that was before he left Amsterdam, before the last interview; when I saw him he referred to that letter—it was signed H. E. Gilbert. (This letter stated that he could not buy any more bills before Thursday or Friday, but would call on Thursday or Friday, at 1 p. m.) I saw Gilbert after I received that letter—he inquired whether I had received the letter—I did not receive any bills enclosed in that letter—I had those bills which George Bidwell had brought with him in my possession at the time—I afterwards received other letters from him from London—I received this letter of the 20th November, containing 860 guilders in Dutch bank notes. (Read: "To S. L. Pinto Esq., care of Jay Cooke Mc Culloch & Co., London. November 20th, 1872. Dear sir,—Enclosed I hand you 860 florins, for which I should like you to send me a three months' drawn on the Amsterdam bank from London—I shall be over again next month, yours truly, H. E. Gilbert.") The post between London and Amsterdam is one day—I made a purchase for him according to the order in that letter, and sent it to him in a letter—I received this reply; (This was dated London, 23rd November, 1872, from Gilbert acknowledging the receipt of the draft.) On 2nd of December, I received this farther letter from Gilbert inclosing 2, 185 guilders: (This was dated Novemlter 30th, 1872, and requested the witness to send, for the amount enclosed, a three months' bill on Berenberg, Gossler and Co.) I made a purchase according to order, and sent it to him by post, and received this acknowledgment from him: (This was dated 4th December, 1872.) I received this letter of 2nd January, 1873, containing 1, 490 guilders: (This requested, in return for the endos d, a three months' bill on London from the Amsterdam bank.) I made the purchase for him, and sent it to him by post, and received this acknowledgment; (This was dated llth January.) On 25th January I received this letter containing 6,010 guilders, but the letter only mentioned 6,000: (This was dated 24th January, requesting bills on London of three months, or having one month to run.) I bought for him this three months' bill on Baring's for 500l., dated 25th January, 1873, drawn by A. Gerson, on the Anglo-Australian bank—I also enclosed in the same letter a small bill for 4l. 10s. on Samuel Montague—I received this letter of 9th February, dated the 7th: (This acknowledged the remittance and enclosed 650 florins, for which he requested a three months' bill on London, of the Amsterdam bank) I answered that letter the day I received it, stating that I could not do business with such a small amount, I then received this letter from him: (This was dated 13th February, enclosed 410 florins more) I replied to that, stating that even with that further amount I could not obtain a three months' bill—I received a telegram on 25th February, which I think I have lost, and I sent him a further letter with an enclosure: (This and the former letter was mentioned in the notice to produce served on the prisoner, and MR. POWELL contended that the notice was insufficient, in point of time and particularity. MR. JUSTICE ARCHIBALD, however, held that it was sufficient) I or my son wrote the letter; I signed it and sent it by post—I have not received any complaint of its non-arrival—it was addressed "H. E. Gilbert, care of Jay Cooke, McCulloch & Co.—I sent him in that letter a bill for 87l. 10l.—I have not heard from him since.

Cross-examined by MR. POWELL. I first communicated with the prisoner in Amsterdam, through Mr. Phillips, between 2 and 3 months back; Mr. Phillips is an advocate in Amsterdam—I told him exactly as I have done to-day, about three months ago—I first received an intimation that I should be required in England at the beginning of June—I received that intimation from Mr. Phillips—I did not write down what I had to say, Mr. Phillips did so for me—he said he wished it for transmission to England—I have not been in England on this business before, I came last Friday—besides the name of Blydenstein, I suggested to George Bidwell the Amsterdam bank, and probably others—I am not able to fix exactly the dates of the particular interviews, I did not make any memorandum of them, but I have a book in which the business was entered; that is here, the dates of the interviews were 5th November, 7th, llth, 12th, and 13th—it was on 13th and 14th November I gave him the bills on Suse and Sibeth and the Amsterdam bank; I handed those to him personally—I have a memorandum of them on that date in my book—this (produced) is the book, in which I made the entry at the time—all the transactions I had with him were in the ordinary course of business as a broker, such as I transact with a great number of other persons.

Re-examined. When I was asked to come over, I consented at once, that was at the beginning of June.

WILLIAM GUEST BARRETT. I was purser on board the Atlantic, one of the White Star line of steamers— "on 7th December last I saw the prisoner Hills sail from New York on board the Atlantic—I saw his ticket in his possession—this is it (produced)—it is made out in the name of E. N. Hills—I frequently had occasion to speak to him on board, and addressed him as Mr. Hills—we arrived at Liverpool on 17th December, about 3 o'clock p. m., I think—he only had one small value with him.

Cross-examined by MR. HOLLINGS. I am not purser of the Atlantic now—I am on board the Adriatic—I read that ticket while it was in his possession—he did not hold it up for me to see; it was put into my hands by our passenger agent, as there was some mistake about his room—I did not take it from Hills, but I saw it handed to him—he was booked in a room with Colonel Steele, who objected to having him in there as he had taken the room for himself—I saw his luggage placed in the room which I assigned to him afterwards—if he had luggage in the hold I should have known itAmericans generally travel with a good deal of luggage—by a small' quantity of luggage I mean only one package, a portmanteau or box—I believe I was asked in April to come as a witness—my attention had not been drawn to the case at all.

Re-examined. Mr. Laws, the agent, handed me this ticket (produced)—Colonel Steele came to me and objected to anyone being there, as he had made a distinct arrangement to have the room to himself—the arrangement was "If forward room is not cleared, to have berth 58"—that is what called my attention to the ticket—he was a saloon passenger—the fare is ninety dollars gold.

JOHANNES DE WAAL. I am a banker, of Rotterdam, in partnership with my father—I first saw Macdonuell on 15th November, 1872, at my office at Rotterdam—he asked if I could purchase one or more bills on the London and Westminster Bank for about 600l.—I told him that the London and Westminster Bank bills were difficult to get, more than other banks, but I would try to get them—he produced 7, 435 guilders, which is 622l. 3s., and said that if I bought the bills I was to send them to an hotel in London, which I cannot recollect—I handed him 4l. 10s. in gold, and told him that I would remit the remainder to his direction—I gave him my own draft on London for 17l. 13s., and said "Just go to Mr. Blydenstein and he wilt then know that it is all right, and remit it to me," and I gave him a card—I purchased a bill drawn by Lucardie on the London and Westminster Bank for 300l., and one on C. Gillman, Esquire, for 300l.—of course there was a little difference of 1s. 4d., which I made an account of, for postage and registration—he told me that the bills were to be drawn to the order of F. A. Warren, and I afterwards received this letter signed "F. A. Warren"—I sent the bills by registered letter to "F. A. Warren" at the address he gave, and afterwards received this letter, signed "F. A. Warren," and enclosing the printed card which I had given to him to show to Mr. Blydenstein—the letter is in French—(M. METCALFE objected to the admission of this letter, as it was not proved to have come from Macdortnell, or to have been written with his authority.

MR. W. WILLIAMS contended that the card which the witness had given to Macdonuell being contained in the letter was proof that it came from him).

MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you recollect the card coming back in the letter, independent of the letter itself? A. Yes, I remember the card without the letter.

(THE COURT considered that the letter was written by

Macdonnell, or by his authority, and therefore admitted it. It was in French, dated London, 19th November, 1872, signed "F. A. Warren" addressed to Mr. De Waal, acknowledging the receipt of his registered letter containing bills to the amount of 6221. 3s., and enclosing the card.) I also received by post this letter, dated 24th January, 1873, purporting to be signed by W. J. Spaulding, and containing Dutch notes; after the receipt of which I purchased this bill for 158l. 13s. 5d. with the amount of the Dutch notes—I enclosed the bill in a letter to Spaulding, at Clews, Habicht & Co.'s, London—I received no acknowledgment.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Mr. Phillips, from Amsterdam, came to me about the evidence I was to give, and told me that persons from Amsterdam were coming to prove the same thing—he showed me two photographs, and after I came over I was taken to the Mansion House and saw the four prisoners in the dock—that was before their commitment—they did not take my evidence there—I only went once to the Mansion House—I was with Messrs. Freshfield—nobody pointed out the prisoners in the dock then—I saw them all four together—that was after I had seen the photographs—I have not got the photographs with me—I am sure it was Macdonnell I saw—it was the second prisoner from this side—I am a Dutchman—Amsterdam is two hours and a half by rail from Rotterdam—Mr. Phillips, who came to me, did not tell me that George Bidwell was at Amsterdam, he only told me that there was a certain case in hand, and if I was called to London to give evidence would I do so—he said that there was other evidence to come from Amsterdam, but I did not speak to Mr. Phillips myself, I was not at home, nor did I see him at the Mansion House—I only came here to give information to Mr. Freshfield, and he took me to the Mansion House—I pointed to Macdonnell in the dock, and said that it could not be anybody else but him—I could not recollect at that time which it was, hut I told him it was one of those three.

Re-examined. I have no doubt now that the second man from this side is the man who dealt with me.

MATTHIAS BARTRAM. I hold the procuration of Berenberg, Gossler & Co., at Hamburg—on 2nd December I received this letter, dated 30th November, signed "W. J. Spaulding," containing some 1, 400 thalers in Prussian bank notes, and we sent Mr. Spaulding two bills next day to Clew's, Habicht & Co., one of which was the one for 200l.—I knew nothing of Mr. Spaulding—this other endorsement is not the writing of our firm, it is a bad imitation. (This bill was the subject of the indictment.) I have seen this other bill before; it was sent to me to make up the balance.

EDWARD WILSON GATES. I am a partner in the firm of Wilson, Gates & Co., of Liverpool—on 2nd December, 1872, I saw Macdonnell in my private room, at Liverpool—he said that he had 2,000l. or 3,000l. to invest, that he had heard that we had bankers' bills, and he would like to have that amount—he desired what we call first-class paper—I showed him some bills in my bill box, and he picked out this one on Brown, Shipley & Co., which he said he would take. (This was for 1,000l., dated 22nd October, 1872.) This endorsement on it is in my writing, he paid me in Bank of England notes.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. It was the third prisoner from me—I saw four photographs of four different people at Liverpool—I afterwards saw him in the dock at the Mansion House, and picked him out immediately—I had Seen several people pick him out in Court—I heard somebody say that he was the one next to a policeman, and I believe he was next to a policeman—William Anderson was one of those who picked him out, and Mr. Coupland was another—I never saw Mr. Coupland till he came to the station-house—I was morally certain before he said that that it was the one next to the policeman—that means that I was certain—I did not pick him out from the photograph; I said I would not swear to the man by his photograph—I can't tell why I was brought to London—Macdonnell had no beard at that time—I believe there was only one man with a beard in the dock.

MR. GIFFARD. When I first saw him in the dock I had not the smallest doubt that he was the man who dealt with me for bills, nor have I now.

WILLIAM ANDERSON. I am a clerk to Richardson, Spence & Co., American merchants, of Liverpool—I know the third prisoner from here (Macdonnell)—I first saw him when he came to our office in Liverpool to know if I had any first-class bills for sale, it was somewhere about the beginning of December—I asked him the object of his inquiry, he said that he had received a large sum of money in England, and wanted to make temporary use of it.

(MR. METCALFE objected to this evidence, as it did not go to show the forgery or the uttering, it was only evidence of guilty knowledge.

THE COURT declined to exclude the evidence.) I said that we had no bills to sell, and asked him how he came to make enquiry of us—he said that he had seen our names on a letter of credit for which we are agents for several large American houses—I said that he would be more likely to get what he required in London than in Liverpool—he then asked me if there was anyone in Liverpool likely to supply what he wanted, and I said he had better try Samuel's bank—he asked me where it was—I said "In Castle Street"—one of our clerks, Mr. Coupland, happened to be in, and I asked him to go and show him where it was.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I saw the photograph at Liverpool, and when I saw him in the dock, I identified him—I was shown two sets of photographs at Liverpool, one set by the clerk to Bateson's, and the other by Brown & Co. of London—I saw Mr. Yates at Liverpool, we did not come up together, we were at the Mansion House together after the examination, but I never saw him till he was about to leave the Court after his examination—I don't think the man I picked out was next to a policeman—I picked out a man, and expressed to Coupland my opinion that he was the man—Coupland had not given his evidence then—I was asked if I recognised the man—I said that I did, and afterwards I gave my evidence—the man who came to me had a beard—Macdonnell was the only man in the photograph with a large beard; the man furthest off has a beard, and he had one then—there was more than one man with a beard in the photograph, more than one had hair on his chin.

EDWARD COUPLAND. I am a clerk in the house with the last witness—I saw the prisoner Mcdonnell in our office at the end of November, or the beginning of December last—I heard him ask for bills, which is a thing I never heard before in our office—he was speaking to Mr. Anderson—I, could not hear what passed on the other' side of the counter, but I was asked to take him up to Yates' bank, which I did, that is about 200 or 300 yards off—I was talking to him on the way—I have not the least doubt he is the man.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I went with Mr. Anderson to the Mansion House, and he told me that it was Macdonnell that he saw there, but I thought so before that, and I said so afterwards—I had seen the photograph.

Re-examined. I had no doubt about him, I knew him as soon as he came up.

ERNEST CHARLES DE LORELLI —I am a clerk in the English office of Rothschild's in Paris—I first saw Austin Bidwell on 16th November, at our office, under the name of Warren, he entered and went up to the head of the office, Mr. Gatley, and asked for a bill at three months' date, for 4, 500l. on London—Mr. Gatley informed him that it was not our custom to gire long paper, and declined it—Warren went on to tell us about an accident he had been in on the Calais Railway at Marquise, and he left shortly afterwards—he had pieces of plaster on his forehead, and he looked very unwell—he returned about two hours afterwards, during which interval Baron Alphonse De Rothschild had come in—Mr. Gatley had had some communication with Baron Alphonse next door—Austin Bidwell then saw Mr. Gatley again and I was in the room, and Baron Rothschild came in and spoke to him, and he gave the Baron a substantial account of the, accident—I stood quite close to them and heard what was said—Baron Rothschild is one of the Directors of the Northern Railway of France—Austin Bidwell told the Baron what had occurred, and said that he had been very much shaken—the Baron said he was very sorry, and he very much sympathised with him, and would do what he wanted about the bill—this bill for 4, 500l. was then prepared and the prisoner paid down in the first instance 99,000 francs in Bank of France notes, he had not enough with him to make up the whole amount—the total amount was 113, 962 francs 50 centimes—he left his address at the Grande Hotel when he went away—somebody was sent round there and the full amount was paid to us.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE Baron Alphonse De Rothschild is not here—I was first told on 15th August that I was to come over here; the solicitor in Paris told me so—the solicitor came before the 15th of this month, I don't remember the date exactly, he came on the 14th, and he came before hat—I first gave my evidence to Mr. Maugham on the 14th—I had not given it to anyone before that, I had seen the solicitor in the office before—I don't remember the date, it was in the early part of the year—he showed me a photograph on the 14th, I did not see one before that; yes I did see one before, it was shown me by a friend; I don't remember the date, it was not long before; I only saw one photograph at that time—he asked if I recognised who it was, and I said "Yes"—I don't think I am called upon to say who my friend was, it was a relation of mine; he knew that I should very likely have to be called over about this, and he asked if I would like to see the photograph, to see if I could recognise it—I said "Yes," and he showed it me—that was a short time ago, when I was in London; I came over for a holiday—it was not anyone in Rothschild's house that showed it to me, nor anyone connected with this prosecution—it was after the prisoners were all taken up—I was not sure that I should be called as a witness, it was supposed that Mr. Gatley would have to come over; and I had to come instead of him—I was here about 12th July, that was when I was shown the photograph, I don't know where my friend got it—I object to tell you where I saw it—I took an interest in reading about this case; I believe I must have read portions of the evidence that was given at the Mansion House—I saw the man I now identify the other day—I was here on Mondays—that was the first time I recognised him; I had not seen him before—I was not here at the time the examination was going on at the Mansion House— I was not told that I was to come over until the 14th or 15th of this month—I don't remember reading about one of the prisoners having been injured in an accident—the reason Mr. Gatley has not come is that I was there all the time, and they said my evidence would do as well as his—Mr. Gatley gave him the bill, and he was the person to whom the story was told in the first instance, but I was standing by and listening to it.

FREDERICK HEINRICH. I am a clerk at Rothschild's, at Paria—I prepared this bill by the instructions of Mr. Gatley—I took it to the Grande Hotel, and gave it to Mr. Warren; Austin Bidwell is that person.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I had previously seen him at the office, and I saw him here on Saturday—I have not talked the matter over with the last witness, further than mere conversation in the office—I think I was told that when I came here I should see the man I had seen at the bank in January last—I saw a photograph a few days ago, and was told that was the man.

EDWARD LEWIS OSGOOD. I am a clerk to Messrs. Drexell, Harjes, & Co., of Paris—I know Macdonnell—I saw him at Messrs. Drexell's on 29th January last—he deposited 50,000 francs with us on that day, in opening an account—he saw Mr. Harjes that day, and a letter of credit was prepared on Messrs. Morgan & Co., of London—I wrote a receipt for it, which Macdonnell signed—I was instructed by Mr. Harjes, in Macdonnell's presence, to prepare a cheque of 1,000l. on Morgan & Co., to the order of George Macdonnell—I drew it, had it entered, and returned to Mr. Harjes' room, where it was signed—Mr. Harjes then informed me that Mr. Macdonnell preferred a bill of exchange rather than a cheque, and this bill of exchange (produced) was given—it is drawn by Simpson & Co. on Messrs. Baring Brothers & Co., of London, for 1,000l., to the order of Frére Broeder, of Bahia—this is the second of the bill, the original we do not have, that is in London—this is endorsed by George Macdonnell—I saw him sign the receipt for the letter of credit, and he also gave specimens of his signature—I have one with me—he paid for the bill drawn by Simpson—some money remained to his credit after that.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. It still remains—he gave me this slip of paper as a specimen of his signature, in order that I might know it when he drew upon us.

JAMES HARRISON. I am a clerk in the employ of Drexell, Harjes, & Co., of Paris—I know Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell—on 9th October last this letter was received by us, purporting to be written by Macdonnell—letters very frequently came to us, addressed to Mr. George Macdonnell, which we forwarded to the address indicated by him in his letter of 9th October, to, Vienna, Frankfort, Amsterdam, London, and Chislehurst—in December we received letters signed "A. B. Bidwell," containing a small amount to prepay postage on the letters we were supposed to have received—those letters were opened by members of the firm—I saw them, and the enclosuresafter the receipt of those letters, I forwarded letters to Austin Bidwell—I prepared them for the post; I did not take them myself—I saw Austin Bidwell a few days previously to 28th January and on the 28th—he inquired for letters, and paid a small amount on postage account—he inquired for letters addressed to Austin Bidwell and George Bidwell—I don't remember whether we had any at that time; I had given him some a day or two previously—he did not leave any address on that occasion—I saw Macdonnell on 29th January—he inquired for one of the members of the firm—I saw the letter of credit, and also the bill for 1,000l.—early in February I received this letter, purporting to be written by R. Adama, enclosing a registered letter addressed to "Joseph B. Bid well, South Bend, Indiana"—I retained that enclosure in my desk for upwards of a week, and then forwarded it—it was fastened with a large seal, with the initials "O. B. "on it—these two letters (produced) are written by me.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I was not examined before the Lord Mayor—it was not decided that I was to give evidence until Thursday last—I was first spoken to immediately after the forgery was discovered, I believe the very day after, in March—it was spoken of in April as possible that some of us would be required in London—I saw Austin Bidwell on 28th January, and two or three days previously, I don't think quite as long as a week before, at our office, nowhere else.

OLIVIER BIXIO. I am the co-manager in Paris of the General American Agency—I recognise Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell—I knew Austin Bidwell under the name of Clark—I saw them both together on 29th January last—Clark came to take back some bonds which he had deposited the day before, 10,000 dollars of American Securities 5 per cent.—they were returned to him; we declined buying them; he had offered them for sale in our office—Clark then proposed to buy a three months' sight draft on London for 1,000l.; we had none, but we proposed that we should buy some for him on the Bourse that very same day, and I went to the Bourse myself and gave the order; he made a deposit of 1,000 francs as a guarantee that he would take the draft after it was bought—I purchased this bill for him—(This was dated 10th January, 1873, for 1,000l., drawn by Beitelli Sapuzi, of Constantinople, upon Georgio Affendi, of Trieste, at three months, payable to the order of Coronati.) That bill was passed to the order of Clark—he paid the balance, and the bill was handed to him.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE I have not been a witness before today—my evidence was taken three days ago in Paris—I had been absent from Paris; I returned on Sunday, and my evidence was taken on Monday—my partner gave information to the prosecution about March—he is not here—the American Agency is an American and English department of a French Society called "The Society for the Deposit of Accounts Current"—we are bankers—we allow interest upon daily balances—I knew Clark first, he was introduced to me by my colleague—I did not see him on the 28th when he came—I saw him on the morning of the 29th—I then saw the bonds he had deposited—I did not myself give him the bill, my colleague did, I saw it done—I was shown a photograph before I came here—I was first shown one some months ago—I can't tell exactly when—I think I was shown two photographs, but I could not assert that—I don't know the person that showed me them, he came once with Mr. Maugham; he was an Englishman—I have not seen him since—he showed me photographs of Clark and the man next to him, and I told him they were the men I had seen at our office—I forget whether he told me what they were wanted for, we knew that—this was the only transaction I had with Austin Bidwell.

WILLIAM BUTLER DUNCAN. I am a partner in the firm of D. Sherman & Co., of New York—I produce a variety of documents which reached me at New York—there is first a letter of advice from the post-office of a registered letter, then the envelope of the letter, and next a letter containing bank notes—also a letter sent to us by Droxell, Harjes & Co., addressed to George Macdonnell—the large euvclope contained sundry bills of exchange, these are them, there are thirteen—the Deputy Sheriff of New York opened the letters and deposited the bills with us for collection, for his account under an attachment.

Cross-examined by MR. POWELL. I received these documents myself from the hands of the Sheriff, and they have been in my custody from that time to this, or in the custody of my correspondent here for collection—I received them from the Sheriff in the latter part of March—originally the letters were taken out of the post-office sealed—I received them myself from the post-office, and kept them until the Sheriff attached them, and they were opened by him at the latter part of March, and he gave me written instructions to collect them for his account; he handed them back to me the moment he opened them, and I forwarded them to Messrs. Baring Brothers, in London, for collection; they did not come into my possession again until this moment—the documents never left my possession till I sent them to Messrs. Baring—I had stood by my clerk and seen him put a mark on each of them—I took a list of them—I put the numbers for collection on each document—I took a description myself of each document, and of the mark put on it—I have brought that memorandum with me, and hand it in—I compared the documents with the memorandum afterwards, to see that the clerk had accurately taken down the mark—I have not seen the original list here, Messrs. Baring will tell you about that—I sent the list to them with the documents; I kept a press copy (produced)—I handed the bills one by one to the clerk, and saw him make the marks.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. A porter from our office went and got the letters from the post-office—postmen do not bring letters in America—the porter delivers them to whichever partner is present, which happened to be me on that morning—he delivered them to me before I knew that there was anything wrong—the head porter delivered them into my hands personally on each occasion.

Re-examined. This is the press copy—I have compared it with the document which was made under my direction—I have not the slightest doubt that the documents which have been produced came in the envelopes I have described, or that the bank notes came in the envelopes I have described.

AUGUSTE FLEISCHMAN (Interpreted). I am clerk to Messrs. Koch, Lautéren & Co., brokers and merchants, of Frankfort—I recognise the prisoner Austin Biron Bidwell—I saw him on 1st February last at the office in Frankfort—he bought some bonds of us—he did not give any name—I produce a note of the purchase prepared by Mr. Lauteren—it was delivered to the prisoner at the time he purchased the bonds. (Read:"1st February, 73. Koch, Lauteren & Co., 15 thousand dollars, U.S Bonds, purchased in the name of Mary Kellogg, 1865-85,—36, 656 florins interest, 1st January, 1873,—200, total 63, 856-15.") He paid me in Frankfort bank notes—he gave no name, only Mrs. Kellogg.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. He was quite unknown to me—Mr. Lauteren attended to the purchase of these bonds—ho is not here—I was in the room close adjoining—I did not hand that paper to the man who bought the bonds—Mr. Lauteren wrote that—I had nothing to do with it—I was in the adjoining room during the cash business—I did not come over before the Lord Mayor, no one came from our house—I was asked to come about throe weeks ago—the firm were communicated with by the English Consul, and Mr. Lauteren told me I was to come over—he showed me a photograph, he showed me three, of different persons, and I was told that the person had been arrested for the Bank forgeries—I have only seen Austin Bidwell here in Court since I saw him at the office—I was here on Monday—I did not see him pointed out by the other witnesses in Court—there was no one else in the room but him and Mr. Lauteren—ours is a very busy house.

BARON HUGO VON BETHMAN. I am a partner in the firm of Messrs. Bethman Frères, of Frankfort—I know the prisoner Austin Bidwell under the name of Frederick Aldridge—I first saw him on 30th January, he came with some United States bonds, which he asked us to sell for him—we agreed to sell them for him—he was known in the house before by that name—I had not seen him myself before—the amount of bonds we were to sell was 10,000 dollars on that day—we did so—there were nine bonds of 1,000 dollars each—these are press copies of the notes—I compared the originals with the press copies—the original entry in our books was made by one of the clerks—I did not myself copy the numbers of the bonds, but I saw the clerk, Ferdinand Clemens, do it—I saw the note that he made that was given to the customer—there was an entry made in our books, and I read it, and this is a press copy of the note made out for the purchaser—I had a complaint from the purchaser that one of the bonds was a little torn, but not as to the numbers—the numbers of the nine bonds for 1,000 dollars each are 7, 447, 48 and 49, 59, 944, 82, 731 and 32, 82, 734, 59, 945, 67, 625 and two bonds of 500 dollars each, 12, 336 and 38—those were all on that day—the value in English money would be a little more than 2,000l.—this bill was given to the prisoner in part payment: (This was a bill for 500l., dated Vienna, 16th December, drawn by Kappenttole on the Russian Bank for Foreign Trade.) I saw the bill given to him—the rest was paid in paper money of the Frankfort Bank—on 1st February he called again, and he asked us to sell 10,000 dolían more of the same kind of bonds—he said that their price was somewhat higher than it had been previously, and he thought it was a very good chance of selling them at that time—he did not say hew long he had had them—it was the fact that the price was higher, certainly higher than they had been three months before—I don't remember whether they had gone up between the beginning and the end of January—I sold the second lot of 10,000 dollars for him—I have the press copy of the numbers—there were nine bonds of 1,000 dollars and two of 500—the numbers the 1,000 dollar bonds were 7, 445, 67, 625, 71, 628, 65, 220, 82, 725, 7, 446, 59, 909, 67, 623, 82, 733—the two of 500 were 8, 692, 12, 333—the value would be about the same, about 2,000l.—I went to the bank and got some bills for him, all of large denominations, 500 florins—I did not give him the whole amount that day—I gave him 20,000 florins in advance, and those were new bills.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. We sell a great many American bonds in Frankfort—we were not selling a great number at that time;. other kinds of bonds we were—American bonds are extensively sold—I suppose we were selling other American bonds at that time—I have not got a memorandum of those here—we were selling American bonds at that time, but not of this kind—I tore the copies out of a book to bring here—I took them out last week—I looked at the book at this entry the day the bonds were sold—I wanted to see to whom they were sold—I did not transact the business as to selling the first lot—my brother did—he is not here—I was present in the office when it was done, in the same room—I think I wrote some receipts, I know I wrote a receipt— "the red ink on that paper was written in Germany by the clerk on the very day—the money was given to the man who got us to sell the bonds the next morning, and not by me—the cashier gave him the money—that was done in the office—I was not attending to him—I did not see the notes—when notes go into the bank they are re-issued—I saw the bill given, and I read it the very day before it was given to the purchaser—we had a great many bills in our possession that morning—I did not read them all—I made no memorandum of the bill on that occasion—I saw it given to Austin Biron Bidwell myself—I read it a few minutes before it was given to him—that bill was kept in the same place, where a great many other bills were kept, in a case—I saw my brother give him the bill—it was not put back into the case again after I read it—it was given to Bidwell who was in the next room when he read it—I looked particularly at the endorsement of the drawee—I knew the man who came by the name of Aldridge—he never told me himself that that was his name.

Re-examined. I did not hear any order given to put the endorsement of Spaulding on the bill; it was done after I gave the bill—we indorsed the bill to Charles G. Brown—I have no doubt this is the bill that was given to Austin Bidwell.

BIAS SCHWARTZCHILD. (Interpreted.) I carry on a banking and exchange business, at Frankfort—I believe I recognise the two Bid wells—I knew George Bidwell as H. E. Gilbert—I saw him at Frankfort first on the 13th or 14th October—he gave me an order to sell some American bondsAustin Bidwell gave me an order to buy some American Six per Cent, bonds for Mrs. W. Hall; I think that was in January—there were two or three lots—the second lot was a day or two afterwards—I can't tell you from memory what time in January the first lot was bought—the value of the bonds was about 5,000 dollars altogether—he gave me Dutch bank notes and Frankfort notes—I did not know Austin by any name at that time—I found the name on a note or bill—I did not know his name when I had the transaction with him about the bills—I have an open business, a shop, and he walked into the shop and did the business.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. The man was a stranger to me.

JOSEPH BUCKHEIM. (Interpreted.) I was formerly a clerk in the Frankfort Bank—I was so on 1st February—I know the prisoner, Austin Bidwell—I saw him at the bank on 1st February—I knew him as Henry C. Clark—he wished to buy two bills on London, one for 24l. 10s.—I showed him one for 19l. 4s.—he wished to have it endorsed to Payne & Co.—I endorsed it so and he paid me for it. (This was a bank post bill, dated 17th January, 1873, for 19l. 4s., in favour of Miss Jane Pavy, at seven days' sight, and endorsed Jane Pavy, Payne & Co., and W. J. Spaulding.) I only showed him that one.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. He was a stranger to me—I was first asked about this matter about three months ago—an official of the Bank of England came to me about it—I was not called as a witness before the Lord Mayor—the official of the Bank showed me a photograph—his name was Herr Smith—I have seen him here—he did not bring me over before I came over this time—I have not seen the prisoners anywhere else in this country but in the dock—I have not been taken to see them in prison—I came over here on Monday night—Herr Smith came with me into Court, and then I saw these four men while I was with him—Bidwell told me his name was Clark—I asked him what his name was, and he replied "Henry C. Clark."

ISIDORE WOLFF. (Interpreted.) I am a clerk in the employ of Messrs. Morepurgo, Weisweiler, & Co., merchants, in Frankfort—I hold the procuration of the firm—I recognise the prisoner Austin Bidwell—I saw him at the office in Frankfort—I knew him by the name of A. H. Trafford—on the 24th October a letter came to the office—I was not there at the time, but I saw the letter subsequently—I first saw the letter about three months ago (This was a letter dated "Mentz, October 24," and signed "A H. Trafford.")

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I only saw him once, and I never knew him before—an official of the Bank of England saw me, and took my evidence—he showed me a photograph—he did not tell me that was the man they were looking after for the Bank of England; he inquired whether I knew any of the portraits—he showed me three or four, and asked me whether I recognised any of the portraits—I first saw Austin Bidwell in this country last Saturday, in Newgate—I was taken to Newgate to see him—I don't recollect who took me.

FREDERICK ROBERT RUMSBY. I am a clerk in the Western branch of the Bank of England—I produce my counter- book—I paid these notes (produced) in answer to a cheque of F. A. Warren, on 29th November: seven 100l. notes, one 50l. note, and 50l. in gold—one of the 100l. notes is No. 22, 659.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I paid them in the ordinary way to a cheque of Mr. Warren's—the counter-book does not show in whose favour the cheque was drawn.

JOHN ALBION COXGOOD. I am a clerk in the Western Branch of the Bank of England—I have my counter-book here—I paid all these notes (produced) but one, on 2nd December, in answer to a cheque of Mr. Warren's for 1, 250l.

JOHN THOMAS STANTON. I am manager of the Continental Bank, 79, Lombard Street, City; it is also known as Messrs. Hartland's & Co.—I know Austin Bidwell as Charles Johnson Horton, and Hills as Noyes—I first knew Austin Bidwell on 2nd December, last year; he called at our bank and opened an account; he merely asked if he could open an account with us—he said that he had had an account with Messrs. Bowles Brothers; that he had been fortunate enough to have withdrawn from them a sum of 7, 500l. just previous to their suspension—he asked what interest we should allow; as he received a cheque-book we saw that it was going to be a current account, and the question of interest was dropped altogether—I told him that the question of interest on a current account would have to be settled by Mr. Hartland himself, who did not happen to be there then—he opened a drawing account in the name of Charles Johnson Horton, he gave that as his name, and signed this signature book "C. J. Horton," and then "Charles Johnson Horton, Charing Cross Hotel;" he wrote that—we assumed that he was an American—we understood from him merely that he was an American gentleman—the account was opened by his paying in 1, 300l. in Bank of England notes—he filled up this credit slip, it is one of our forms, "Hartland & Co., 79, Lombard Street, December 2nd, 1872. Credit, C. J. Horton, 1, 300l."—this note, No. 22, 659, was one of the notes; and these are the other twelve—at the same time I believe. I gave him change for one, a 100l. bank note—that was the first time I had seen him—he called again the following day, the 3rd, and wrote on this credit slip "C. J. Horton," he put against the word "Cheque," "245l. 10s.," it consisted of two amounts, the particulars of which I put in, one was a cheque on Baring's for 50l., and the other, for 185l. 10s. was a cheque of F. A. Warren's on the Bank of England—that amount was credited to his account—on 5th December I believe I saw him again; I have a credit slip of that date, the name "C. J. Horton" and the date is written by him, it was a cheque for 95l. 3s., less stamp 1s.—it purported to be a cheque of J. H. Schroeder & Co., but I cannot speak personally to these matters—his account was credited with that amount; on the same day 1,000l. was drawn out by a cheque of C. J. Horton, it was paid in bank notes—on 27th December I cashed a cheque of Horton's for 100l.; I paid 90l. of it in bank notes, and 10l. in gold—these are the notes, two 20l. and one 50l.—I can't say whether I saw him on 30th December; this credit slip of that date bears his writing "C. J. Horton," it is for 1, 550l., it is a cheque on the Bank of England, drawn by F. A. Warren—that does not appear on the credit slip; it is an entry in the cash-book by Mr. Hartland; he is not here; it is inconvenient for both of us to be away at the same time—that 1, 550l. was credited to Horton's account—on 31st December there was standing to the credit of Horton's account 1, 645l. 11. 11d.—on that day I paid to Horton these bank notes, four of 20l. and one of 5l., 85l. in all, in payment of a cheque of his; the balance was struck after that—on 9th January, 3,000l. was paid in to—the account in Bank of England notes—this is the credit slip, the body of it is in Mr. Hartland's writing—I received the 3,000l. myself, the initials "C. J. H.," are the prisoner's, Austin Bidwell's—I have here the credit slip of 11th January; the whole of that is in Horton's writing, it is a credit slip of bank notes, 500l.—I did not take the numbers—I have nothing to do with the numbers—that sum was credited to Horton's account—on the same day there is another credit slip for 450l. in banknotes, and "Credit, C. J. Horton, notes, 450l., by C. J. H."—that is also Horton's writing; those notes were credited to his account—on 11th January a sum of 3, 933l. 2s. 10d. was drawn out, I presume by a cheque of Horton's, it is debited to C. J. Horton—I have no personal knowledge of that; no one else drew on that account—the entry is in Mr. Hartland's writing—we gave him in payment two drafts on Paris to his order, one for 50,000 francs, another for 22,000 francs, both drawn on Messrs. Meyer and Piesse, of Paris, and French bank notes for 28,000 francs—on 6th January a cheque of Horton's for 1, 250l. was paid over the counter in these twelve 100l. notes and one 50l.—when the account was first opened I gave a cheque-book to Horton containing twenty-four cheques; and on 11th January a fresh cheque-book was delivered to him containing forty-eight cheques; I don't think he signed for them—on 16th January 75l. was drawn out by a cheque of Horton's in one 10l. and three 5l. notes, and the rest in money—these are the Nos. that appear in the books—I have only the 10l. and one 5l. note here, there are two 5l. missing; these are a portion of the notes given in payment of that cheque—I produce a credit slip of 18th January for 3, 304l. 16s. 9d.; the greater part of it is in Horton's writing; it consisted of two cheques on the Western Branch of the Bank of England, one for 1, 600l. and one for 1, 704l. 16s. 9d.—it does not state by whom they were drawn—on 21st January 2,000l. was paid in bank notes on a cheque of Horton's, that cheque has been put into the pass-book and returned in the ordinary manner—I cannot state the exact date when the pass-book was last given up—we have not got the pass-book, we have some of the later cheques in our possession, but not this cheque, the papers and vouchers are all in the hands of the prosecution—the earliest cheque I have here is January 2nd, 1872, it was paid on that date—the next is February 20th, 1873—I have none between, those must have been omitted to be returned—the cheque of the 21st of January for 2,000l. was paid in ten notes of 100l. each, and two of 500l.—these are the notes; that was an open cheque—I paid it myself over the counter—on that same day a cheque of Horton's was paid for 807l. 15s. in favour of Jay Cooke, McCulloch & Co., through Williams, Deacon & Co.—this is the credit slip of 22nd January—the date and initials appear to be in the writing of Horton; as far as I am a judge of handwriting, I should say distinctly that it was his; the name "C. J. Horton," and the initials especially—it is "January 22nd, 1872, C. J. Horton, cheques 3,716l. 13s. 7d., C. J. H."—that consisted of two cheques, one for 2, 300l. and one for 1, 416l. 13s. 7d. both drawn on the Western Branch of the Bank of England—in this case I have an entry that they were cheques of F. A. Warren's—on that same day a cheque of Horton's for 400l. was cashed over the counter with two 50l. and three 100l. notes; these are the notes—on 24th January, a cheque of Horton's for 2, 200l. was paid, and also one for 45l.—I paid the larger cheque by a cheque on the Union Bank of London, and the 45l. cheque in three bank notes of 5l. and two of 20l., these are the notes—on 25th January, 3, 400l. was paid in, this is the credit slip; the words "C. J. Horton," are in my writing, the date, amount, and initials "C. J. H," are in the handwriting of Horton, that consisted of one cheque on the Western Branch of the Bank of England, signed "F. A. Warren"—I knew the prisoner Hills by the name of Edwin Noyes—I first saw him at the bank, he was introduced to me there by Horton, I should say about 18th January—he introduced him as his clerk—he said he was to be treated as his confidential clerk; that is to say, we were to treat him exactly as we should himself, in his absence—I asked if Noyes was to be allowed to sign cheques—he gave a direct negative to that, "by no means," or words to that effect—I understood him to say that he was going down into the country, I think to Birmingham—he did not say what for—I do not remember his saying at any time what his business was—I don't think I saw him after he introduced Noyes—I would not like to say that I did not see him the next day or very soon after, but I don't think I did; I may have done so, but I don't think I did—afterwards we did business with Noyes, only in the way of cashing cheques and paying in money as a clerk—I received this letter, signed E. Noyes, dated 25th January, I can't say that I received it on that date—I believe it to be written and signed by Noyes—(Read: "January 25th, 1873, Messrs. Hartland & Co., Continental Bank. Gentlemen—Please hand to bearer the German money bought by me for Mr. C. J. Horton, this day.") I believe Noyes did on that day buy some German money, it had to be obtained—this is the receipt for it, it was 2,000 thalers: "25th January, 1873. Received, 2,000 thalers and 7l. 9s. 10d. cash. E. Noyes. "It was brought by a messenger—my impression is that we sent the money by a clerk with the messenger—I think it was to the Terminus Hotel, London Bridge; the number o£ the room was 6—I cannot say how the thalers were paid for—this order was written by Noyes: (Read: "25th January, 1873. Procure for C. J. Horton, up to 20,000 guilders, by Tuesday next. E. J. Noyes.") On 25th January, a cheque of Horton's for 1,000l. was paid in bank notes; there were five 100l. notes—these are them (produced)—I have also a memorandum made from our books, of the foreign money paid for the balance; I cannot say who made it—the foreign money was 395 German florins, which are worth 1, 150 thalers; and 2,000 thalers—that amounts to 502l. 10s. 2d.—the 2,000 thalers were sent afterwards—on 27th January, a cheque of Horton's was paid for 351l. 15s., in favour of Jay Cooke & Co.; it came in through their bankers', Williams, Deacon & Co.—on 28th January, a cheque of Horton's was presented and paid over the counter with seventeen 100l. notes, five 50l. notes, and 1,049l. 17s. 9d. in Dutch florins—these are the other notes, the rest would probably be given in cash—on 3rd February, 1,000l. was paid in to Horton's account—I produce the credit slip for that: (Read: "3rd February, 1873. Credit C. J. Horton, cheque 1,000l. E. Noyes.") That is in Hill's writing—the 1,000l. was a cheque on the Bank of England, Western Branch—there is nothing to show whose cheque it was—on the 4th February, 3, 891l. 14s. was paid in to Horton's account by this credit slip (Signed "E. Noyes") That is in Noyes's writing—the sum consisted of a single cheque on the Bank of England, Western Branch, signed, "F. A. Warren"—that was paid in six 100l. notes, one 50l., one 10l., and one 5l., and 654l. 1s. 9d. in Dutch florins—these are the notes, but one note, No. 83, 316 is missing, there are only five 100l. notes here—on 7th February, a cheque of Horton's for 3, 500l. was paid over the counter in six 500l. notes (produced), and five 100l. notes—they are all here—on 11th February, a cheque of Horton's for 200l. was paid over the counter in eleven notes; five of 10l., five of 20l., and one of 50l.—on 13th ebruary, 6, 250l. was paid in to the credit of Horton's account by two cheques, one of 4, 250l., and one of 2,000l., on the Western Branch of the Bank of England, signed "F. A. Warren"—the credit slip is dated 12th February, and signed "E. Noyes;"but they were paid in on the 13th— on the same day I received this letter: "Room No. 6, Terminus Hotel, London Bridge. Gentlemen,—Please enclose amount in an envelope. E. Noyes for C. J. H."—I think a cheque for 65l. was enclosed, and I believe I declined to send the money—I afterwards saw Noyes at the bank, and said that in sending money by a strange messenger it would be necessary in future to give fuller directions, and that his letter was rather vague; he said that he should desire me to obey the instructions in his letters, and trust the persons he sent, that the person he sent could be trusted, and it would be all right—my opinion is that another letter was sent, upon which we acted, and sent the 65l.—this letter is also in Noyes's writing—(Read: "February 14th. Gentlemen,—Please place the amount of enclosed cheque in an envelope, and direct it to 'C. J. Horton, Room 6, Terminus Hotel, London Bridge, 'and deliver it to bearer. Yours truly, E. Noyes.")—There is nothing in, that letter to show what cheque it contained, but we evidently paid a cheque for 50l. that day with this 50l. note (produced)—on 15th February a cheque for 332l. 10s. was paid to the credit of Horton's account—I have before me the credit-slip for that, which is, I believe, in Hill's writing, and signed "E. Noyes"—I have no doubt that it was a cheque of Jay Cooke & Co. on their bankers, Williams, Deacon & Co., because it passed through our bankers', the Union Bank, but there is no mark on it—it agrees in amount and date—on the same day I paid a cheque of Horton's for 4,000l. in these fourteen notes; there are two of 1,000l. each, two of 500l., and ten of 100l. (produced)—on 17th February 1, 200l. was paid in to Horton's credit, with this credit slip, "Credit, C. J. Horton; Cheque, 1, 200l. E. J. Noyes."—that was a cheque on the Bank of England, signed "E. J. Noyes"—on the same day I cashed a cheque of Horton's for 2,000l., and gave these eleven notes (produced) in payment; one for 1,000l., two for 500l., one for 200l., five for 100l., and two for 50l.—they were paid in the ordinary way iu an open cheque over the counter—I afterwards received this letter, which is in Hill's writing—(Read: "19th February. Gentlemen,—Please place the amount of the enclosed cheque in an envelope and deliver it to bearer, addressed 'C. J. Hortou, Terminus Hotel, London Bridge, 'and oblige E. Noyes.") On February 20th I paid a cheque of Horton's for 1,000l. with one note—this (produced) is Horton's cheque, enclosed in the letter; it is dated the 19th, and is to "self or order"—the 1,000l. note was paid for that cheque—I do not know whether I sent it by the messenger or not; it was probably sent as desired—that cheque is drawn on one of the cheques out of the book issued to Horton—on 21st February 4, 500l. was paid in to Horton's credit by this credit-slip: "21st February; Credit, C. J. Horton. Cheque 4, 500l. E. Noyes."—That is in Noyes's writing, in my opinion, but I did not see it written—when Horton went away all the transactions were with Noyes as his clerk—this is the cheque for 4, 500l.—it appears to be made payable to "C. J. Heorton," but it is endorsed "C. J. Horton"—it was presented at the Bank of England, and they wrote on it "Endorsement irregular," and returned it to us—we then sent on this debit-slip for Noyes to sign: "Continental Bank, 21st February, 1873. Debit account of C. J. Horton, Esq., 4, 500l. Cheque returned; endorsement irregular"—That is signed "E. Noyes"—we received back that cheque on the 24th endorsed "C. J. Heorton," under the other—on the 25th 4, 500l. was paid on this cheque of Horton's, payable to self or order—it is endorsed, and was paid with four 1,000l. notes, one 100l. note, No. 97, 582; this 5l. note, No. 29, 480, and the remainder in a bill on Meyer Fils, of Paris, for 10,000 francs; that would be 394l. 13s. 5d.—on 26th February 2, 277l. 10s. was paid in to the credit of the same account—this is the credit-slip; it is signed "E. Noyes," in Hill's writing—the amount was made up of two cheques, one of which was Warren's for 2, 100l., but I cannot say the date of it—this cheque for 2, 500l. (produced), payable to C. J. Mitchell or order, is dated 21st February, but I cannot say if that is the cheque because we have no mark on it—that cheque was paid in to Horton's account, but I cannot say that it was paid in on that day—those two cheques make up the amount—the other cheque was, for 177l. 10s., signed by Jay Cooke, McCulloch & Co. on Williams, Deacon & Co.—those two cheques have passed through the account, and they make up the exact amount of the credit-slip—on 27th February I received this letter: "Gentlemen,—Please place the amount of the enclosed cheque in an envelope, and deliver it to the bearer, directed to 'C. J. Horton, Room No. 8, Cannon Street Hotel. 'Yours truly, E. Noyes."—that is in Hill's writing—a cheque of Horton's for 100l. is produced, bearing the same date and for the same amount, to self or order—we sent back a 100l. note, 00, 757, January 7, 1873—on 28th January a cheque of Warren's on the Bank of England for 6,000l. was paid in to tho same account—it is payable to Thomas Carter or order, and endorsed "Thos. Carter" and "C. J. Horton"—tho credit slip is in Hill's writing, and signed "E. Noyes"—when that cheque was paid, he ordered a very large quantity of foreign money to be ready for him on the following day in French notes, but he wanted a certain amount in thalers as well—I think it was a larger amount than 2,000l. in English money—on the same occasion he cashed this cheque of Horton's (produced) for 2,000l., dated the 28th, to self or order—it was paid with these two 1,000l. notes (produced)—the 28th was Friday, and I think the foreign money was to be ready on the Monday—he came again next day, March 1st, and produced this credit slip, which is in Hill's writing: "1st March. Credit C. J. Horton. Cheque 2, 500l., money for special collection; E. Noyes"—He paid in this cheque of Warren's for 2, 500l. on the Bank of England, payable to C. J. Horton, and endorsed "C. J. Horton"—he said that he should want the amount of the 6,000l. and that cheque as well on Saturday, 1st March—we had by that time got a portion of the foreign money which he had ordered—I said that it would require time to collect the cheque for. 2, 500l., and he was to call again about 1 o'clock—special collection means send it directly, instead of it going through the Bank of England—he returned, I think, between 12 and 1, and presented this cheque for 5,000l., to self or order, dated 1st March—I then told him that we were collecting the 2, 500l. cheque, and while he was waiting May, from the Bank of England, who had been there previously, came in again when Noyes was sitting there—I pointed Noyes out to May, who fetched a policeman, Pope, who took him in charge—I had not paid the 5,000l. cheque which he had just presented—during the time the account was open I did not ask Horton or his clerk what business he was—the only addresses were "Charing Cross Hotel," "6, Terminus Hotel," and "8, Cannon Street Hotel;" it was Charing Cross Hotel when the account was opened—this cheque for 350l. is one of those retained by accident when the pass-book was sent, and there are others in the hands of the prosecution—I have here a lithograph copy of the banking account from the commencement, and we have the letters and books here.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I am the person who handed the 100l. note, 25, 702, and the 5l. note, 29, 480, across the counter—Mr. Horton came with no introduction to us, but he mentioned Bowles Brothers, and their failure—I do not know that it was so much of a failure as being in a dislocated condition—we made inquiries, but I did not do so personally—the address given to us was Charing Cross Hotel, he wrote it down, and I have got it here—this is the book I made Horton sign, to get a specimen of his signature—I did not make inquiries at the Charing Cross Hotel—at the time he signed this book he paid in some money, and signed a credit-slip, that was on December 2nd—I believe this credit-slip of 30th December to be his writing—I don't think I saw him write it—I saw Noyes first about 18th January, but I cannot fix the date—I do not think I saw the credit-slip of 18th January written—I know nothing about these cheques for 500l. and 480l.; the entries are by Mr. Hartland—there is also one on 18th January for 3, 304l. 10s. 9d., that was, I believe, the last time I saw Horton—he did not hand me the credit-slip, that was on the day he introduced Noyes, but it was not received by me—the next credit-slip I received after the 18th was on the 21st or 22nd—I believe I received the credit-slip of the 22nd; I cannot say from whom, but I presume it was from Horton, though I cannot say that I saw him after the 18th—I did not, I believe, see any part of it written—the "Credit C. J. Horton" is written, and it is signed "C. J. H."—there is certainly a slight difference in the name between that and the signature-book—I do not think I should refuse it as a signa-ture—we always find some slight difference in signatures, but it appears to me practically to be the same—I should say that these initials correspond exactly—they correspond with the capital letters—the amount is 335l.—this (produced) is, I think, much more like the signature in the book than the slip is, but yet it in dissimilar in some respects—I cannot tell you in whose writing the figures or date are in this credit-slip of 22nd January—the word "Jan. "is sufficiently like to be the same, but the figures do not appear to be so cramped—the figures and the date, I think, appear to be written with the same ink—from that time all the credit-slips were drawn up by Noyes, but I am not sure that there are not some signed by Horton—the letter of 13th February is signed "E. Noyes for C. J. H."—I think the body of this slip of 30th January is Horton's, but the total is Mr. Hartland's—it is not at all like the signature-book, but still it may be Horton's, it is written so carelessly—I saw Horton write in the signature-book, and I think I saw him write some credit-slips, but I cannot tell you in all how many times I saw him write—the credit-slip of 11th January was filled up in the office, and it is probable I saw it done, it is like the signa-ture-book—the entries in our books where I find Warren's name are chiefly, and I believe all, by myself—I do not think the cheque of 20th February for 4, 500l., with the mistake in the endorsement, went through the clearing-house, I think it was presented by ourselves—it is credited and debited on the same day, and we got it back from the bank at once.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Horton opened the account with us on 2nd December—I am not quite sure on what day he introduced Noyes to me; it was somewhere about the 17th or 18th—between 2nd December and 17th or 18th January all the money that was paid in to the credit of Horton was paid in by himself—I principally received it; on seven-eighths of the occasions, on nearly all the occasions—I don't think there was anyone with him—I am not sure that he never sent a messenger; I should not like to say that; he may have done so; but on the major portion of the occasions he came himself—I have an idea that there was a credit-slip of Noyes on 20th January, but I am not sure—the first signature of Noyes here is that of 25th January, about the German money—on that same day here is a credit-slip signed with Horton's initials—it may be that the first documeut I received bearing Noyes's signature was on 25th January—it appears that he made payments in with the initials "C. J. H."—I treated him on every occasion as Horton's clerk—I had no particular reason for asking Horton whether Noyes was to sign cheques—I have known cases where confidential clerks have to sign cheques; it is not at all out of the ordinary course of business; but when I asked him he said "By no means," or words to that effect—between 25th January and 1st March Noyes was there nearly every day, either to pay in money on Horton's account or to draw it out—I am not sure that on one occasion he did not bring a porter with him; on one or two occasions he might have been there with a porter from the hotel where he was staying—he has sent individuals to the bank with communi-cations from himself—I received a letter from him by a messenger on three or four occasions—they appeared to me to be very ordinary persons, and persons that ought not to have such communications entrusted to them—they appeared to be messengers from the hotel—I never asked Horton what his business was; he appeared to us to be an American gentleman—I don't know that he represented himself as being anything, but that he had simply closed his account with one bank and desired to open it with another—nothing whatever was said about agency business—we did not open the account with him contemplating such a large amount of business; it was on the understanding that it was to be a deposit account, and then, observing his intimate connection with the Bank of England, we asked no further questions—we did not make any inquiry, because the evident con-nection of the account with respectable persons put it on one side— "we were under the impression that he was carrying on business on a large and extensive scale; we had no idea what sort of business; we did not know, we could only surmise—I had no idea about agency business, or any other kind of business whatever; I only saw that transactions were being conducted on a large scale through the medium of respectable persons—until Mr. May made his appearance we never suspected anything wrong; we reconciled all with the idea that very large money transactions were being conducted with a large customer of the Bank of England, and we did not concern ourselves with what it might or might not be—I can't say that such an address as the Terminus Hotel is usual, but it did not impress us—I did not look upon it as eccentric—we had no suspicion whatever—when Noyes sent the letters by a messenger, we had some opinion as to the irregularity with which business was being conducted; at the same time, we had nothing to do with that—we had no notion, either from the large sums or the address given, that there was anything wrong about the transaction—I think I never saw Horton after Noyes was introduced until he was in custody.

Re-examined. I did not know that he was a customer of the Bank of England; I merely observed a connection with a large customer of the Bank; I refer to the cheques of Warren that were constantly paid in to his account—we did not ascertain by inquiry that Warren's cheques were good, but by the fact that large cheques were being continually paid; we only took care of ourselves—the cheques were always honoured, and that satisfied us—in the majority of instances the cheques paid over the counter were paid to Noyes.

EDWARD BRENT. I am a clerk in the issue office of the Bank of England, in the City—I know, Noyes; he came to me from time to time, for the purpose of changing notes into gold—I have gone through the occasions upon which Noyes carne, the Nos. of the notes received, and the amount given out to him—I have gone through a regular tabulated form (handing it in) this is correct—I asked him on every occasion whether the gold was for home use or for exportation—in most cases his reply was for home use, in other cases for Paris—the sovereigns given out are full weighted sovereigns—I asked for his name and address to be written on one of the notes when presented for payment, the first note of the pile on each occasion down to 28th—he gave 28, George Street, Manchester Square, Durant's Hotel—he did not bring his own bags, our porters always find the bags to transfer the gold into; our porters sell them—when he took the bags away they became his property.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. It is not unusual to give gold in large quantities in exchange for notes, either for home use or for exportation—I simply asked if the name and address written on the back of the note was his name and address, no further question.

FREDERICK PEARSON. I am a clerk in the issue department of the Bank of England—I have here a list of notes that I paid upon tickets which Mr. Hughes brought to me as being brought by somebody—I do not identify Macdonnell—this is a correct list of the notes I gave for the gold.

HENRY WILLIAM HUGHES. I am a clerk in the weighing room, Bank of England—I know Macdonnell—I first saw him on 28th January, when I went into the office and saw him talking to Mr. John Miller, of the weighing department—he had brought 6, 300l. in gold which he wanted exchanged into notes—I weighed the gold; I found there were twenty sovereigns too many—I told him so; he said "Oh, I wondered where it was"—he seemed to know there was a difference—I don't remember how many of the sovereigns were light; there is no record in the book; it might have been two or three—I weighed them in an inner office afterwards, but I don't remember the number of light—we do not receive light; we cut them—they formed a very small proportion of what he brought—if they had been a large proportion there would have been a record of it; there could not have been above two or three—I asked the prisoner his name; he told me it was George Macdonnell—I was about to spell it in the ordinary way, "McDonald;" he told me it was Macdonnell—he told me he had great difficulty in getting persons to spell his name correctly—nothing was said in my presence about where the money came from; I did not hear that conversation, if there was such conversation—he came again on 13th February with 650 sovereigns—I took him to the proper department, with a ticket, to get notes for the gold—on 19th February he brought 9,000 sovereigns—out of that quantity fifteen were light, and those very slightly light—that accounts for the ticket being for 8, 985—on the 25th he came again, and brought 1,000—I gave him a ticket for those—I think there were two light, which he might have changed—on the 19th he was quickly attended to, because all the machines were disengaged; on the 25th he was kept waiting about half or three-quarters of an hour, and he was very fidgetty; he rang the bell once or twice, and wanted to know why he was detained.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. He gave the name of George Mac-donnell, and when I was about to write it "McDonald" he corrected me in the spelling.

JOSEPH REECE ADAMS. I am principal in the issue department of the Bank of England—I saw Macdonnell" on 28th January—Mr. Miller called my attention to him—I asked him where he got the gold; he said either that he brought it from Lisbon or that it came from Lisbon; I think he said that he brought it from Lisbon—there were very few light sovereigns, and the conviction on my mind was that they were our own sovereigns that had been issued from us—I asked if he got them from Knowles & Foster, of Lisbon, as we ship largely for that house; he said not—this (produced) is a correct calculation of the weight of the sovereigns—it would be 21 lbs. troy for 1,000; so that it would be about three-quarters of a ton altogether.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. We do not issue light sovereigns—there were so few light in the 6, 500 that we believed they were originally issued from us.

Re-examined. With so large a quantity of gold it is not usual to find so few sovereigns.

EBWARD BRENT (re-examined). I changed ten 100l. notes for gold on 21 st January—those notes are not in the tabular form that I have given—I have not got the numbers of them; we never enter the numbers and dates, we simply put down the amount and the name of the party presenting the note—a gentleman in another department, to whom the notes are handed, would take the numbers—I don't know who it was that took these.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I saw the person who brought the notes—it was from what that person said to me that I entered the name of Horton.

WALTER COGGLESHALL. I came over in the steamer Moselle when Austin Bidwell and his wife were on board—I arrived here on the morning of 27th

May, from Aspinwall—they changed at St. Thomas from the Havannah steamer into the Moselle—during the voyage I got this document (produced) from Mrs. Austin Bid well. (This was the sold note of Cork, Loughton, & Co.)

Grass-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I came from Bolivia at that time, where I had been for some bankers in London—I am not a banker's clerk; I had been sent to Bolivia by them upon some business as agent, and was on my return home—I am an American—I formed the acquaintance of Austin Bidwell and his wife when they were on board the vessel—she appeared to be a young woman, about eighteen I should judge—I told Mr. Bidwell that I would assist his wife if I could—the paper was given to me I won't say by Mr. or Mrs. Bidwell, probably it came from one of them—I received it; it was given to me by one of the two, I don't remember which—I told Mr. Freshfield I could not say which—I don't know that I have said this morning that I got it from Mrs. Bidwell; I say I got it either from Mr. or Mrs. Bidwell—he said that it contained the numbers of two bonds that she had, and when she arrived in England she would let me know her address—he was present; I never had any conversation with her otherwise—I got the document from her when she was on board the vessel—I did not get her address; I have never got it—I have never seen her in England, only at Plymouth, on board the steamer—Austin Bidwell was in custody on board the steamer—I did not give this document to Mr. Freshfield—I expected to go back to South America in two or three days, and not having received any word from her, I gave it to Mr. John Kerton, an American detective, to give to Mr. Bidwell—I don't remember what date that was—probably Mr. Freshfield can tell you the day he received it—I intend to go to South America still—Mr. Freshfield did not stop me, he told me he did not think he should want my evidence at all—I understand the American detective is not here; I am told he has gone home.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I came from Rhode Island—I have had experience in commercial matters in America—it depends entirely upon the clerk whether he is treated by the master on more familiar terms there than in some other countries; it depends entirely upon his ability, if they are men of ability and intelligence I should say they were treated more familiarly and more nearly approaching equal terms than in this country.

JAMES HARRISON (re-examined). This seal (produced) has on it the same letters "G. B. "that were on the letters I spoke to before—I did not take an impression of the seal—I saw that seal for upwards of a week while the letter was in my desk—I then forwarded it.

HENRY HALL. I am superintendent of the rate department under the Corporation of Birmingham—I have been engaged in that office about twenty years—I am a native of Birmingham and familiar with it and its suburbs—I have to prepare assessments of the different properties and factories situated in Birmingham, in that way I should be likely to become acquainted with the owners and occupiers of property there, particularly with new property and new firms—I do not know anything of a person of the name of Warren engaged in the manufactory of Pulman's sleeping cars—I have not heard of any such person or any such fictory.

Cross-examined by MR. MCLMTKE. I make out an assessment once a year—the last rate was made in April this year, the current rate; the rate of the previous year was made out in April—the names that would appear in my rate-book would be those I found in occupation in April last year, with the amendments: they are amended, perhaps, once a month, just when we find a new name it is inserted in the rate-book—the rate-book made out in April would contain the monthly amendments—the amendments are made weekly or monthly, whenever we find them—the rate-book made out in April would show who was in occupation up to that time—I have not got the rate-book here.

HELEN ETHEL VERNON. In the course of last year I lived at 11, Duke's Road, Euston Square—about the commencement of August in that year I became acquainted with George Bidwell—I knew him by that name—I travelled with him in France in September; we went to Trouville—I became unwell and returned to London, leaving him abroad—I afterwards by arrangement met him in Holland—during our first acquaintance, and while I was absent from him in England, I received these letters from him (produced)—during my acquaintance with him, and up to the time when I met him in Holland, I had seen Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell—I had known them by those names—George told me that Austin was his brother—Macdonnell seemed to be on intimate terms with them both; they addressed each other by their Christian names, Austin, and George, and Mac.—I stayed with George Bidwell one day at the Victoria Hotel, Rotterdam; we went from there to Haarlem; that would be a half or threequarters of an hour from Rotterdam—while at Haarlem I saw Mr. Austin once, and Macdonnell twice, I believe; on one occasion while I was there I went to meet George Bidwell at the station, he had been to Amsterdam all day, and I met him on his return—the next day after that, the 14th, we all breakfasted together at Rotterdam, Austin Bidwell, George Bidwell, Macdonnell, and me—it was said that Macdonnell and Austin Bidwell were going to England, via Calais, and George Bidwell and I were going by way of Harwich—we did not go that day, we waited till the next, the 15th, and then crossed—we got to London I think on the 16th, and went to the Alexandra Hotel, where we found Macdonnell—I don't think I saw Austin Bidwell there—after staying a day or two at the Alexandra Hotel I went to Ford's Hotel, Manchester Square, and remained there with George Bidwell till the beginning of January—I first saw Hills on Christmas Day, at Ford's Hotel—George Bidwell had said that Mr. Macdonnell, Austin, and a friend of theirs was coming to dine with us on Christmas Day—they did come—Hills was introduced to me as Mr. Howe, from Liverpool—George Bidwell told me that we were to give them each a present, and I got four silk neck wrappers, and had their monograms put on them, "G. M." for George Macdonnell, "G. B." for George Bidwell, "A. B." for Austin Bidwell, and "E. N." for Hills—this (produced) is the one I got for Hills—George Bidwell told me what initials to put—George Bidwell's was a white scarf—we had the dinner-party and spent the evening together—the others treated Howe friendly enough, they addressed him as Ed., and he addressed them by their Christian names; he addressed Macdonnell as Mac.—I believe Howe dined with us once again that week; he went down to the Crystal Palace with George Bidwell and me on the following Saturday—after 1st January we removed to 87, Upper Gloucester Place, and remained there till about the end of February—while there I saw Hills once or twice, Macdonnell, and Austin Bidwell—after living there for some time, we went to the Albemarle Hotel—while at Upper Gloucester Place I remember seeing a black leather bag, I kicked it accidentally, that caused me to open it, and it was full of money—about the end of January I bought a travelling bag at Parkius & Gotto's, as a present for George Bidwell—he took it away with him and came back without it—I was rather angry at his giving it away—he said he had been to Calais with Mr. Macdonnell—he used to get up early in the morning at Gloucester Place—sometimes he breakfasted with me; generally—when he did not he told me that he breakfasted with Macdonnell—he went out to breakfast on those occasions—I remember Macdonnell showing me a 500l. bank note while we were at Gloucester Place; he told me once that he was going to Paris—George Bidwell spoke once of going to Rugby for a few hours; he mentioned that to me once or twice; he was back to dinner the same day—he left about 12.30, and got back about 8 o'clock in the evening—Mr. Macdonnell took the rooms for me at the Albemarle Hotel—it was said at the Albemarle Hotel that we had come from Paris—I said to George Bidwell that there was no need of a falsehood about it—he said as Macdonnell had taken the rooms we had better keep to the statement he had made—one day George Bidwell asked me to lend him 16l. to lend to Mr. Howe; that was just after Christmas—I gave him a box with some gold in it, and told him to take what he wanted—I believe he took 16l. from it, and I believe he lent it to Mr. Howe; I don't know exactly—we remained at the Albemarle Hotel till Monday, 3rd March—on the Sunday, the 2nd, George Bidwell told me to pack up my things, and told me that we were going to Paris—on the Monday we went to Hastings—he said he thought he should like to go to Hastings again before he left England—we went to the Victoria Hotel, St. Leonard's—Macdonnell came down and dined with us that evening—we took all the luggage we had from London—I did not tell them at the Albemarle Hotel where we were going to—George Bidwell spent that evening at St. Leonard's with Macdonnell—Macdonnell had a bedroom ordered for him in the hotel—he left us the next morning, Tuesday, 4th March—I believe he went to London; George told me that Macdonnell was going to London—I believe he took a trunk of Mr. George Bid well's with him; George told me he had taken one—that was a trunk that I had packed; it was a large black leather one, this is it (produced)—that trunk was with us at Trouville—I saw it opened after it had been brought from America, and I saw some of the shells that I had picked up at Trouville—we were in the habit of going to the Casino when we were at Trouville—there was a ticket taken for the Casino, that is it (produced)—Macdonnell left St. Leonard's about 12.30, and I and George Bidwell went to Battle the same day after Macdonnell left—we went back to St. Leonard's again in the evening—the next morning, Wednesday, we went to Ashford together, and from Ash ford we took the train to Doverwhile we were at Dover we stopped at the bank; I remained in the fly outside—I don't know the name of the bank—he went in and stayed some time: I remained outside in the carriage—after that we took the train to Canterbury, and while we were on the journey he gave me this luggage ticket—when we got to Canterbury I left Bidwell and went back to Hastings—I believe he went on to London—I remained the night at St. Leonard's at the Victoria, in my old room; the next day, Thursday, the 5th, I came up to London—I had sent a telegram to George Bidwell, and he met me on the platform at Charing Cross—when he met me his moustache was cut—we got into a cab and drove a short distance towards Fentou's Hotel—George Bidwell got out of the cab and left me, and told me to go on to the hotel and take apartments—I took his dressing bag, and went to 11, Duke's Road, my own lodging, Mons. Meunier's—I received a message from George Bid well while I was there by a cabman; in consequence of that I met George Bid well at the Marble Arch at 6—I took a cab, and Jules Meiuner and I went together part of the way—I took the bag containing money with me, besides the dressing bag—we did not go in the same cab to the Marble Arch, we changed cabs, because George Bidwell had told me to do so in his note—I have not got the note, it was destroyed—I ultimately met George Bidwell at the Marble Arch—I noticed that he was clean shaved then; it made a very great change in his appearance—I asked him what was the matter—he said "Nothing, some friend of his had been doing something and he did not wish his own name to be mentioned"—we then took another cab and drove to Euston Square—we did not go straight there, we drove first up the Bayswater Road and then to Euaton Square—I got out of the cab and left Bidwell in, to go to Drummond's Hotel—he asked me to go to the Victoria and Euston Hotels, to see if there were any telegrams for him—he sent me to ask for them, and I was to take them to him at Drummond's Hotel, that is close to Euston Square—I got one telegram, but it was one I had sent him myself from St Leonard's—I found him at Drummond's Hotel, and he toid me he was going straight away to America—he told me to go back to Fenton's and bring all the luggage up—I gave him the bag with the money, and went down to Fenton's, and took the luggage to the Euston Station—I left the luggage there and went to Drummond's Hotel, and there I found Meunier, my landlord, with the bag whioh I had been originally carrying, and which I had given to George Bidwell—George Bidwell was not there—we were about to follow in the train—when I got to the station to go off, I was arrested by the police—during my acquaintance with George Bidwell, he made no statement to me as to who or what he was—he told me he had an income of 2,000l. a year—on two occasions I went to 17, St. James's Place, to see Macdonnell—George Bidwell went with me—I saw Ellen Franklin examined at the Mansion House—I did not know her before at all—I remember on one occasion going to Baker & Crisp's shop in Regent Street, to buy a silk dressGeorge Bidwell was away at Calais that day—he told me afterwards that I had been seen in Baker & Crisp's that day—I asked him who had seen me, and he said a friend of his who had seen me with him occasionally—I asked George Bidwell to have his photograph taken—he consented, but it was a very wet day and he could not have it taken—it was not taken.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I first saw Austin Bidwell last August—the last time I saw him was about a week or a fortnight before Christmas—I was living at 87, Upper Gloucester Place then—I have been living with some friends since—I gave information to the prosecution—I have not received any money from the prosecution, and I have not been promised any.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I can't give you the day of the month when I first made the acquaintance of George Bidwell—during the whole time I knew him he always wore a waxed moustache, Napoleon style—he had no beard as he has now, nor any imperial or whiskers, nothing but a moustache—his hair was the same as it is now, I believe—I packed the large trunk some time before we went to Hastings, at Upper Gloucester Place—I did not see it at Hastings at all—the last time I saw it was when it was put into the train at Charing Cross—it was quite full when I finished packing it—I did not look it, and I don't remember being present when it was locked—I could tell nearly every article that was in the trunk—there were no large packets of papers in it.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. All that I know further about the trunk is what George Bidwell has told me—I don't remember the date that I went to St James's Place—I think it was in January, but I could not swear to it—I went in and stayed a short time—I saw Macdonnell there—it was one Sunday—on both occasions it was Sunday.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. The first day that I saw Noyes was on Christimas Day—he dined with us—there were five of us to dinner—Noyes and the three other prisoners, and two young ladies came after—I believe Macdonnell introduced Noyes to me, but I am not sure—he introduced him as Mr. Howe—I am quite sure of that—I scarcely remember who introduced him to me when I went into the room—I have seen Noyes about half-a-dozen times in all—I dined with him once or twice afterwards—I cant say how many times I have seen him—I saw him once at our apartments, Upper Gloucester Place and Ford's Hotel—I never saw him at St. James's Place—I was about an hour at St. James Place on each occasion—I went with George Bidwell, and saw Macdonnell there—all the time that we have dined together they seemed to treat Noyes as a visitor, as a guest—and he called once or twice to see us, as a visitor—it was said that he had lately come f-om Liverpool—that was on Christmas Day—I had no particular conversation with him myself, it was general conversation—nothing was said to Noyes that I know of about my travels with Bidwell.

Re-examined. The trunk that was at the Charing Cross Station was part of the luggage for Hastings—I think it was left at the Hastiugs station: I did not see it at the hotel.

ELLEN FRANKLIN. I made the acquaintance of the prisoner Edwin Noyes Hills on 1st Februrary last—he afterwards took rooms at No. 7, Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square, the drawing room floor, at 2 guineas per week—he told me his name was Edwin Hall, and he was a native of Newark, in the United States of America—he told me he was inventing a machine for milking cows—I lodged with him there until the 1st of March—our weekly expenses were about 5l. 10s. to 5l. 13s. including the 2 guineas rent—he made me several presents—one was a sealskin jacket—on 13th February Macdonnell called and left his name, and on the 14th he came and dined with us—Hills addresed him as "Colonel" and Macdonnell addressed him as "Ed."—I think Macdonnell called five or sixtimes, during the month—they appeared on very intimate terms with each other—Hills did not call him any other name, and Colonel Macdonnell—I heard the name of Bradley used—Noyes told me when he spoke of his friend I should always know that he meant Mr. Bradley—I did not know who George was at that time—I never knew Macdonnell as George, only as Mr. Bradley—I remember one morning Hills telling me he was going to Birmingham, but what day I don't know—he always dined at home with me from 5.30 to 6.30, and sometimes at 8.30—8 o'clock—he said when he went to Birmingham that he would telegraph if he did not return in time for dinner—I did receive a telegram that day—I can't say that that is the one—I can't tell which one I received at the time he went to Birmingham—I did not have one from Birmingham—I had one from Rugby—I received these three telegrams at different times—I received a telegram on the day he went away—when he said he would telegraph he always telegraphed—he came home to dinner on the evening of the day he said—he said he was going to Birmingham about 8 or 9 o'clock, or prehaps earlier—I told him then that the telegram he had sent came from Rugby—I said "You have telegraphed from Rugby," and he said "I know I did." (The telegrams were read:"Office of Origin, N. W. District. From Ed. to Mrs. Franklin, 7, Charlotte Street, Rathbone Place, Oxford Street. Have dinner at 7 o'clock, shall not be home till then."—February 12th, N. W. District From same to same. Will be home about 8 to-night."—February 15th, Blisworth Railway Office of Origin. From same to same. Can't come home until between 7 and 8.")—I subsequently received a telegram which I have not here, which has been lost—I showed that telegram to Hills on his return in the evening—I don't know what has become of it—I gave it to the solicitors—I said to Hills, "You telegraphed from Rugby," he said, "I know I did"—he showed me on the map in Bradshaw, where Rugby was, and Birmingham too, and the distance between them—I remember Hills being out on 24th Februarythere were two trunks in his room; one was kept locked, and the other unlocked—I opened the largest one, the one that was usually kept locked—I suppose he had put something in there that I was not to see—I had the key—I found in it some American bonds, in an envelope—I had not seen that envelope before—I had seen Hills looking at the bonds on the Sunday before, and he told me to go out of the room—he did not show them to me—when I found them I took them down to Mr. and Mrs. White, the landlord and landlady, and showed them to them—I took them out of the envelope—there were several; I don't know how many, I did not count them; it was a roll—I put them back into the box, locked it, and put the key back—Hills came in afterwards, and George Bidwell a little time afterwards; they remained a short time, and then went out together, taking the bonds with them—Hills returned in the evening, and I saw him seal up the bonds—he brought in these two seals, and this paper to roll them up in—he sealed them with these two little seals, and fastened the paper with crystal cement, which I got from Mrs. White at his request—I did not see the address put on—towards the end of the month I thought Hills was very uneasy in his manner—on 1st March he went out between 8 and 9 o'clock in the morning—he said he would return early; that meant about 2 o'clock—he never returned—Macdonnell called from 5.30 to 5. 45 in the evening, and said he had come to take Mr. Franklin's luggage away (we were passing as Mr. and Mrs. Franklin); he first said he had very bad news for me, that Mr. Franklin would not be home for a week or two, but he would let me know when he was coming home—he left me a 20l. note—he wanted to take away the box that was already packed; that was the largest one; the one that was usually looked—I allowed him to take it—this is it (produced)—he went away, in a cab—he said he would come on the following Sunday or Monday—he did not; I have never seen him since—I remember being with Hills on one occasion at the shop of Messrs. Baker & Crisp, in Regent Street; he pointed to a lady there, and told me it was Mrs. Bradley, and that she was staying with his friend George—it was Miss Vernon; she did not see me—Hills said he did not want her to see him because she though the was out of town.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I was going by the name of Mrs. Franklin before I saw Hills—I asked him to go by my name; it was my suggestion—he told me that his name was Edwin Hall—he used to go out generally from 7.30 to 9 o'clock in the morning, and sometimes later—he told me that he had business in the City, but I don't know what—he generally came home to dinner—that was the ordinary course of his life—he sometimes told me that he went into the country; I can't say how often he told me that; two or three times—he always returned at night: he never was away one night—I am sure it was on 24th February that I saw him rolling up these bonds, because it was my landlady's sister's birthday—I have seen Macdonnell come to him five or six times.

Re-examined He did not tell me what he was, or how he was engaged.

FRANCES CATHERINE GREY. I am a single woman and live at Pimlico—in December last I was employed at the Turkish Divan in the Haymarket—I used to be there of an evening—whilst I was there in December I made the acquaintance of the prisoners Maodonnell and Austin Bidwell, and I recognise Noyes—I knew Austin Bidwell as Theodore Bingham, and Macdonnell as George Macdonnell—I never knew Hills'name—the three used to come to the Turkish Divan in the evening—I supposed they were friends, they came together—Bingham said that Macdonnell was his doctor—I knew that Bingham was an American—Macdonnell said that Hills was a genius, that he had come over here to invent something—they used to come to the Divan sometimes two or three times a week, and sometimes not for a week—sometimes they stayed away a little while—I became on friendly terms with Austin Bidwell—I remember his going to Paris—I saw him off by the train at the Charing Cross Railway Station—that was in January I think, I don't remember the date—I saw him take his ticket; he told me that he was going to Paris on business, not what particular business—he was away two or three days—I saw him on his return, at the Turkish Divan, his face was strapped up, he had met with an accident; he had a small piece of plaster on his forehead—he said there had been an accident on the line by the mail train, that two persons were killed and he only got injured—I think he was alone when he told me this, but I don't remember; it was at the end of January as near as I can remember; that was the last time I saw him—he did not say anything about going away—after that I saw Macdonnell and Hills, they used to come to the Divan sometimes—I asked them about Austin Bidwell—I generally spoke to Macdonnell—he said that he was very ill, suffering from the accident—he also said he was suffering from a shot wound, and he would have to have the ball extracted from his side—he said that he was going to extract it—I always called Austin Bidwell by the name of Dorey—I afterwards received two or three letters from Dorey—this is one of them (produced)—I think Noyes brought it me, I am not sure, I am almost certain it was Noyes—I never saw Austia Bidwell write, and never saw him after receiving that letter—after he left I never received any letter signed Dorey from anyone except Hills or Macdonnell—one of them brought me that letter (Read: "My dear Daisey, I will be unable to see you, I am sorry to say, until I change my quarters, which I hope will be on Monday, and I shall do so almost only because I can see you. My friend will tell you how I am I can only write with difficulty, so I will write no more, only to say that I am, dear Daisy, yours very truly, Dorey")—Daisy" was my familiar name—he was in the habit of calling me by that name—on one occasion Macdonnell brought me 20l., he said Dorey had sent it, that he (Dorey) was going to the South of France for the benefit of his health—after Dorey had left I became Macdonnell's friend—he was living at 17, St. James's Place—I visited him there once or twice—I did not know the address of Austin Bidwell or Hills—I did not know at all what they were—on one occasion, on February 7th, I went into the City with Macdonnell in a brougham, he went into some house, and when he came out he had an envelope with coloured papers, American bonds I think they were—I had never seen any before—I did not see what he did with them—some time in February I had arranged to go to New York with Macdonnell—we were to start at first on 1st March, I think, on a Friday, but it was put off to another week as Macdonnell said he had to go to Paris, and he went away on the Saturday morning—he said he should be back on Thursday, but he came back on Tuesday—I saw him at his lodging, and he arranged for us to start for Liverpool next day—he said there was an unpleasant remark passed at the table where he was dining, something about the forgery, and he said they would be down upon all Americans now—he did not say what forgery—he said he understood the language they were speaking by asking them to pass something at the table, I think he said it was German—on the Tuesday night, the 4th, Macdonnell remained at my lodging—he went out between 7 and 8 o'clock in the morning, he returned about 12 o'clock in the day—when he was out some person called, I heard afterwards that it was Sergeant Bull, of the Detective force—a gentleman called before that, I think it was George Bidwell, it was very much like him—he asked me if Mr. Macdonnell was in, that he had not kept an appointment with him at the Grosvenor—I told him I expected him again, but he had gone out; the gentleman then left—I had got my things all ready to start, and during the day some man brought me my passage ticket for the Peruvian for America; two passage tickets were brought, a young woman was going with me—I received no message with the tickets—in the afternoon I had a telegram from Macdonnell, saying that it was impossible to go till the 9 o'clock train—I and the young woman left the lodging that day with the luggage, for the purpose of going to Liverpool—I saw Macdonnell in the evening, outside Gatti's Restaurant, near the Lowther Arcade—I went there to have some tea—that was before I had started from my lodging with my luggage—Macdonnell told me to go to Liverpool, and he would meet me there—I asked him why he had not taken a ticket for himself—he said he had taken it at another office—he said I was to go by the 9 o'clock train from Euston—he left me outside Gatti's—I then went to my lodging, got the luggage, went with my friend in a cab to Euston Square station, and went to Liverpool by the 9 o'clock train—I did not see Macdonnell again before I started—I went to the North Western Station Hotel at Liverpool, Macdonnell had told me to go there—I remained there till the following Friday, Macdonnell did not come, and I returned to London on Saturday—I had only my own luggage with me, not Macdonnell's; I don't know where his luggage was—the police took charge of my luggage at Euston Square on my return, and examined it—the next time I saw Macdonnell was in New York, in custody—I went out with one of the City police constables.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I saw Bingham off to Paris the last time he went before the accident; I saw him again three days after—he had then met with the accident; that was the last time I saw him until I saw him at the Mansion House—a good many Americans come to the Turkish Divan, it remains open until 1 o'clock; it is open all day, I believe—I was not living there, I was only an attendant there in the evening; I was evening barmaid; it is a smoking place.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I first saw Noyes, Macdonnell, and Austin Bidwell at the beginning or middle of December—I could not say the date, as near as I can remember it was the beginning of December—I never knew Noyes' name, he did not go by any name, I have seen him there several times; I can't exactly say how many—I saw him in December and January—he generally came with them; sometimes they dropped in one by one, they generally came together; there was smoking and everything in the shape of drink—either Noyes or Macdonnell brought me the letter, I could not be certain which it was.

KATE MARY ENGLISH. I am the manager of Nelson's Portland Hotel, and have been so since August last—I know all the prisoners, I have seen them at Nelson's Hotel—on 22nd August last George Bid well came there and took a room—he stayed one week—during that week I saw Austin Bid well and Macdonnell there; I knew them by those names and addressed them by those names—George Bidwell told me that his brother Austin Bid well was staying at some other hotel, a larger one than ours—he said that on a previous occasion he had stayed at the Langham—on this occasion he said he had come direct from a journey to our house—at the end of the week he asked me to tell him of some quiet watering place that he might go to for a day or two, and I told him Eastbourne—he left on the Friday morning, the 29th, and came back late on the Sunday night, the 1st September—he remained a few days, he then told me that he was going abroad, he wished me to receive his letters and keep them till he wrote, and then forward them to the address that he would give; he also wished me to receive and forward any letters for his brother or Macdonnell—he left with me a letter for Mr. Hills, I was to give it to Mr. Hills—he did not say when Hills would be likely to arrive—letters did arrive while he was away, and after that I received this letter (produced)—it is George Bidwell's writing, I don't think I have seen him write, I know his writing by receiving the letter from him; he afterwards referred to having written to me and to receiving my replies (Read: "Grande Hotel, St. James, 211, Rue St. Honoré, Paris. Send my letters to this hotel until further notice as soon as they arrive, and oblige yours, George Bidwell, or for J. C. Bidwell")—I forwarded to that hotel all the letters addressed to any of them—there were not many, I know by the postage paid—on 14th September I received this letter (Read: "14th September, Gnnde Hotel de Paris, Trouville. I have addressed a letter to Mr. Edwin Hills, and should he arrive please hand it to him when he asks for it. In case you have any letters for me, on receipt of this will you please forward them to this hotel, but not afterwards as I expect to leave here shortly; I shall let you know where to send them. Of course if my brother calls you may hand any letters or other things to him or to my other friend, but the letter enclosed for Mr. Hills you may say nothing of to them, merely holding it for the personal call of Mr. Hills, either Edwin or Edwin Noyes Hills. Yours, George Bidwell")—I did, as requested in that letter, forward letters to that address—on 23rd September I received this letter: "To H. C. Nelson, Esq. Paris, September 20. Dear Sir,—I received yours sent tor me at Trouville. May I trouble you to inform me if any person has called, if so, will you insist upon having their name and address, as lam owing two or three tradesmen altogether, perhaps 3l., and wish to know if they wish to obtain it before I return to London; at all events, I should like the names, and shall settle all accounts due to you, postage, &c., on my return. Direct to Drexell, Harjes & Co., 10, Rue Scribe, Paris. Signed George Bidwell. "I also received this letter on 24th October: (This was dated Hombourg, 22nd October, 1872, from George Bidwell, requesting to be informed whether Hills liad yet called for his letters, and desiring letters for himself or brother to be forwarded to Hotel de Angleterre, Frankfort-on-the-Main.) Up to that time one telegram had arrived for Mr. Hills, I think—I forwarded twelve or thirteen letters in answer to this letter, the one for Hills was among them—I registered the packet, and sent it on to Hombourg to the address given; they were principally American letters—I remember seeing Macdonnell at the hotel before George Bidwell came back—he called a few days after I had sent the packet, and thanked me for having sent it, saying that he had heard from Mr. Bidwell, that he had received the letters safely, and he had come to pay the postage, which he did—I had sent the letters on 25th October, and Macdonnell called on 4th November, and paid me 6s. 6d. postage—he said I was to keep any letters that might come, as Mr. Bidwell expected to be soon in London, and I should see him—Macdonnell called more than once after that for letters—he said that George Bidwell was abroad travelling—towards the middle or end of November George Bidwell himself came—he asked if there were any letters or parcels for him, and if Mr. Hills had been, he had been expecting him some time, and he gave me another note addressed to him, which I was to keep and give to Hills should he call at any time—he also told me that he was going to live out of town, and would I receive any letters or parcels that might come for him, and he would call occasionally for them—he thanked me for having forwarded letters to him—he was aware that Macdonnell had called and paid the postage, he referred to that—I remember seeing Hills at the hotel in December, he gave his name Edward Noyes Hills, and asked if I had any letters for him—I had never seen him before—I asked him if he was Mr. Bid well's friend who had been expected in London for some time—he said "Yes," and I gave him a letter Mr. Bidwell had given me; and when he called a second time I gave him one or two American letters which had come by post—he opened the letter Bidwell had left and read it—he wished to know if I would receive letters for him and he would call for them, as when he left home he meant to stay at our hotel, but had changed his plans, and was going to stay out of town with a friend, and I agreed to do so, it was not customary, but he being a friend of Mr. Bidwell's I would—he called twice only—I had seen Austin Bidwell at our hotel when George stayed there at the latter end of August, he used to come every day—he only came when his brother was staying there—on 6th March George Bidwell came and had breakfast, after which he went to a dressing-room, and after that he brought his things to the office, and asked me to take charge of them—he said he would call later in the day for them—he left a coat and bag, and one or two other small things—he had not slept at the hotel—he came about 8, and left at 11—he never came again, but about 2 o'clock a cabman brought me this letter, which I assume to be in George Bidwell's writing: "Mr. Nelson. Dear Sir,—Please deliver to the bearer my coat, bundle, and anything you have for me; I will settle when I come in again. George Bidwell"—I gave the things to the cabman, taking his name and number—the bill is still owing.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. Mr. Bidwell was a week with us, and Macdonnell called frequently—when I was before the Lord Mayor, under examination, some photographs were passed to me—I do not know where they came from.

Re-examined. I think some of the prisoners had not arrived in this country then.

CHARLES GUYOT. I am waiter at Ford's Hotel, 16, Manchester Street, Manchester Square, and was so last November—I know the four prisonersI first saw George Bid well on 19th November—he had an engagement the day before, and he arrived there in the morning about 10. 30—he stayed till January 1st, 1873—two or three days before Christmas Day he ordered a dinner for Christmas Day, and on that day the four prisoners were present, and Helen Vernon and the other ladies came afterwards—the nearest prisoner to me was called Hall or Howe—I had seen the other two prisoners before; they did not give any names—I knew them, and let them in—I fancied that George Bidwell was an American; but I gave him an American paper one day, and he told me he was no American, but a Briton.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I was shown two photographs while I was under examination at the Mansion House; they had been shown to me before—that gentleman, the nearest to the desk, showed them to me some time in the beginning of March, before I was examined before the Lord Mayor—I mean the gentleman with the light hair.

Re-examined. I saw two photographs—I went before the Lord Mayor in March, but I saw the photographs before that; and when I went before the Lord Mayor, I saw only one of the persons the photographs represented—I saw the original at one time, but I never saw a photograph of him.

ROBERT JAMES GROVE. I am a lodging-house keeper, of 87, Upper Gloucester Place—on 1st January this year, George Bidwell engaged apartments at my place—Miss Vernon was with him—they remained till 5th February—Macdonnell visited him there, daily pretty well—they once had a dinnerparty—I don't know the exact date—four persona were there, I don't know who the others were—they left on 25th February and my wife assisted in packing up their things—Macdonnell was there in the fore part of the day—after they left I found these papers in one of the drawers. (A bill dated 3rd December, 1872, drawn by J. Berenberg & Gossler for 12l. 11s. 8d. at two months' date, to the order of Spaulding, endorsed "H. J. Spaulding;" also three other bill forms)

HENRY PHILPOT. I am head porter of the Hotel Victoria, St. Leonard's—on the 3rd March, George Bidwell and Helen Vernon arrived there, about 11 a. m., they occupied room No. 64—I helped to take the luggage up—about 6 p. m. George Bidwell drove to the station and came back with a large heavy box—he went out again directly and came back with Macdonnell who slept there that night and occupied room 38—before dinner Macdonnell gave me orders for the fire to be lighted in No. 38—he gave no reason for that—I took the large heavy box into that room—he did not take that box away when he left, he took a box which came in the morning, which was fetched from Warrior Square station—the one that came over night was left, but I never saw it opened—I did not assist to open it—I and the chambermaid assisted to open the box that came in the morning—it was like this box (produced)—Macdonnell took it away—it had been taken into his room—I carried it up, but I did not carry it down again—the one that came over night I carried down in the morning—I did not notice whether it was heavier or lighter.

ELIZABETH STEPHENSON. I am chambermaid at the Victoria Hotel—I remember Mr. and Mrs. Bidwell coming there on 3rd March—rooms had been telegraphed for for them—Macdonnell came in the evening—the porter told me to have a fire lighted in room No. 38, and I did so—it smoked, and Macdonnell said he hoped it did not always smoke—I think the weather was rather rough and windy; I don't know that it was particularly cold.

RICHARD SHREWSBURY ELY. I am a clerk in the Dover branch of the London and County Bank at Dover—on Wednesday, 5th March, George Bidwell called for a draft—he wrote this: "Cheque on London for 300l. Order. Jas. E. Smart."—I asked him whether he would have a draft on our head office; he said "Yes;" and I filled up this paying-in slip: "London and County Bank, 5th March, 1873. James Esmarl, gold, 300l., commission, 9s."—he signed it "Jag. E. Smart, Long's Hotel, London."—I then made out this draft on the head office: "London and County Bank, 5th March, 1873. On demand, pay to James Esmart or order 300l., value received."—I afterwards corrected it to "Jas. E. Smart"—there is also on it, "Alteration in the endorsement requires to be confirmed by the payee"—that was written in London—I have initialed on this draft the alteration in the name—I asked him if he was staying in Dover, and he said no, he had just come from Calais and was going through to London—he gave me gold to pay for the draft; he turned it out of a bag—I counted it, and found 301 sovereigns instead of 300—I asked him if it was exactly 300 he wanted to draw for; he said that it might be one sovereign more or less—I gave him the sovereign back—he paid 9s. for the commission, and I delivered this draft to him.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. He was a stranger to me—there is an endorsement on the draft: "Pay to E. Noyes, or order. J. E. Smart E. Noyes.

Re-examinéd. That was not on it when I delivered it—I did not know anything about Noyes.

HENRY POTTER. I am a cashier at the London Joint Stock Bank, Princes Street, City—David Howell, a solicitor, of Cheapside, kept an account there in March last—on 13th March this draft, dated 5th March, was paid in with this paying-in slip—it was endorsed "E. Noyes," as it is now—payment was afterwards stopped, and it was retained by the London and County Bank.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I believe Mr. Howell was the solicitor defending some of the prisoners.

JAMES NOYES. I am no relation to the prisoner Hills—I am a salesman to Messrs. Parkins & Gotto, of 24, Oxford Streek—I knew Helen Vernon as Mrs. Bidwell at the time she was living at 87, Upper Gloucester Place, and George Bidwell as her husband—I have seen Macdonnell with George Bidwell at Upper Gloucester Place—on 27th January Mrs. Bidwell bought a bag for 25l. 10s.—I understood that it was a present for her husband—I engraved the Bidwell arms on it, and took it home on 5th February—George Bidwell afterwards ordered two bags of me, one at 38l. and one at 48l.; one of them was for Macdonnell, and I saw him about it in our show-room—he brought me the Macdonnell arms to put on it, like this sketch (produced)—I have written on it, "Mackenzie arms; "I thought it was the clan Mackenzie—I put those arms on the bag that George Bidwell bought for Macdonnell—they were ready by 22nd February, and I took them to Upper Gloucester Place, and George Bidwell gave me in payment for them a 100l. note, No. 95, 688, 25th March, 1872—I took him the change on the Monday—on the same day Mrs. Bidwell called to have some alteration made in Mr. Bidwell's bag, and next day, the 25th, I took it to Upper Gloucester Place, and found a cab with the luggage at the door; they were just going away—these (produced) are the two bags—on 5th March, about 7.30 p. m., George Bid well called and bought a dressing-case for Mrs. Bid well for 18l., which he paid in gold, and asked me if I could give him notes for gold; he gave me 100l. in gold, and I gave him 60l. in notes; I could not do the other—I put the dressing-case in a cab, and he took it away—next morning, before I was at business, he brought it back, and left it with the shopwalker to be engraved, and I put on it the initials, "H. E. V."—on that evening, 6th March, a cabman brought me a note from George Bidwell, in consequence of which I went to Drummond's Hotel, near Euston Square, with the dressing-case—I declined to send it by the cabman, as the engraving was not paid for—I saw George Bidwell there—he was shaved quite clean; he had a very stiff moustache before—I gave him the dressing- case and he paid me for the engraving—that was about 8 o'clock, or a little after—he had told me in ordering the other two bags that he had given one of them to his brother.

ALFRED HENRY REMOND. I am manager at the head office of the North Atlantic Express Company, Moorgate Street—I know Macdonnell—I first saw him on 5th March—he came to me for the purpose of sending a box to Major Matthews of New York—he wrote these two documents, a consignment and a declaration, part of them is written and part is signed—one copy goes to New York, and I retain the other—this is the box, the original direction is on it. (This was forwarded by Charles Lossing, of London, to Major George Matthews of New York—date blank—duty not paid— ""wearing apparel actually in use "dimensions 32 by 23. To be kept in bond in New York till called for. Sender's signature, "Charles Lossing, Tunbridge Wells")

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I say that that was Macdonnell—I was shown a photograph of him before I saw him—three or four photographs were shown to me—one of Mr. Freshfield's clerks showed them to me—he gave me no intimation that any of the photographs were of the men who were charged with the Bank forgery—he called at my office, and asked me if we had forwarded a trunk to Major Matthews, and asked me if I recollected the person who brought it—he then showed me three or four photographs, and asked me if any of them was like the person who brought the trunk to my office—I pointed out the one which I believed to represent Macdonnell—I did not recognise it by his beard; all the photographs had more or less beard, like my own so as to exclude the razor altogether—I was afterwards taken to the Mansion House, the prisoners were, I think, all there—I was called expressly to identify Macdonnell—he was not pointed out to me, I pointed him out in the dock—I am perfectly sure he is the person.

WILLIAM BRIGHAM BARWELL. I am the general superintendent of the South Atlantic Express Company, they carried on business in April, at 71, Broadway, New York, they are at 57, Broadway— "they have an office in London—they received goods forwarded from London to New York—in March last I received this way-bill from Liverpool referring to a trunk from Lossing of London—the trunk arrived at New York on 20th March—I find my initials on this way-bill—about that time, in consequence of a communication from Mr. Griswold, I searched in my office and found this letter addressed to me: (This was dated London, 8th March, 1873, requesting that a trunk forwarded by steamship Baltic, containing wearing apparel for Major George Matthews, might be kept in bond till called or sent for Signed C. Matthews.) I then searched for the trunk and found it on one of our drays at our door, not in the warehouse—on the same day a woman brought the letter signed "George Matthews" and I immediately took steps to stop the delivery of the box—it was afterwards opened in my presence, and I found in it three bundles of bonds, the total nominal value of which is 220, 950 dollars—their numbers and value were called out and taken down in my presence—I also found in the box this visiting card with "George Bid well" on it, these two watches, some shells strung together, some wearing apparel, this card plate, and these dies or seals—the first package of bonds I took out was wrapped in a nightshirt and a bath towel, the next package in some soiled linen, and the third I did not take out myself—Mr. De Costa was present and Mr. Henry Jarvis, two English police officers, and one of the Pinkertones—I handed all the things over to the Receiver, who gave a receipt for them.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. Mr. Jarvis opened the box in my presence.

CHARLES DE COSTA. I am a member of the firm of Blatchford, Seward, Griswold, & De Costa—we were solicitors to the Bank of England at New York at the time of making this claim, and of the extradition of Maodonnell—I was present at the opening of the box, and I afterwards received the bonds and the other property from the Receiver—a bill in Equity was filed, and this property was claimed as having been bought with the proceeds—I received the bonds, and they were turned over to Mr. Peter Williams, as representing Messrs. Freshfield—these are the bonds (produced), they are worth about 45,000l.—they were rolled up just as they are now, in three parcels, at the bottom of the big trunk, among some soiled linen—I saw the watches and chain taken outone watch had a monogram, "G., B.," on it, and a crest—there was also this little leather bag of foreign coins or medals, a large collection of shells, some shirts, an elegant new dressing-gown, wrapped in an oil-silk cover, and other clothes, this red seal with "G. B. "on it, and this die—two packages, one directed to "G. C. Brownell" and the other to "A. B. Bid well, Esq., New York, U. S. A., care of New York Safety Deposit Company, 140, Broadway, New York," were obtained from the post-office authorities by Nathaniel Jervis, jun., and in the end handed over to us with their contents, as they are now—the post-mark is, "Registered, 25th February, 1873"—I am not sufficiently cognisant of post-marks to say where it is from—the New York postmark is, I think, March 13—it contained 17, 500 or 17, 600 dollars, which would be worth about 3, 700l. in English money—the seals correspond with one of the seals found in the box—the second package is a registered letter, addressed to "G. C. Brownell, Esq., Brevoort House, Fifth Avenue, New York," and bears the Cork post-mark of March, 1873, and the New York post-mark of March 20; it contains 17, 500 dollars, and is sealed with precisely the same seal as the others—this letter, addressed to "George M. Macdonnell, Esq., Post Office, New York," is one that the Receiver opened and handed to me; it is dated "Edinburgh, 11th March"—there is also another dated 11th March; another dated the 13th, addressed to "Alfred J. Watson, Brevoort House;" another of "Alfred John Watson, Edinburgh, 11th March;" one of "Edinburgh, 15th March," with a newspaper enclosure (the two last were addressed "Alfred J. Watson, Brevoort House, Fifth Avenue, New York"); another of the 18th, with a newspaper enclosure, to the same address, and a separate slip of paper; another of 22nd March, to the same address; another of the 22nd, to "J. W. B. Bax, Mogegan, Michigan, United States," with an envelope enclosure addressed to "Austin Biron B. or Mack;" also a letter of April 2nd, 1873, addressed to "Miss Martha A. Brewer, Post-office, South Bend, Ind., U. S.," with several enclosures; all those are dated from Edinburgh—here is another package, which a member of our firm went to Springfield to get; he is not here— "I saw it at our office in New York, and I saw the member of our firm, Mr. Seward, take it out of his trunk in this city when he was here about a month ago—at that time it contained 10,000 dollars in United States Government bonds.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I received all these things, not from the post-office, but from the Receiver, Mr. Nathanial Jervis, junr., who was appointed Receiver in the action by the Court; he is not here—these three packages, the aggregate of which is 220,000 dollars, I myself saw taken out of this trunk; also these dies, and all the other little matters lying before me—I was present when the Receiver opened the trunk, and when these were taken out; they were counted and numbered in my presence—these are the lists made of them, re-checked by me—the trunk was opened in an Express Office in Broadway—this package, addressed to "Austin Biron Bid well, care of the New York Safety Deposit Company, 140, Broadway"—one of my partners got from the New York post-office, the post-office authorities refused to receive it, and the envelope is so marked—we received it from the Receiver at the final end of the action—the Receiver opened it the moment it was placed in his hands by the post-office authorities—I was not present when he opened it; it had been opened before I saw it—the packet addressed to "G. C. Brownell, "I also got from the Receiver—I think, with one exception, I was present at the opening of every letter produced.

Cross-examined by MR. MBTCALFE. I am a member of the firm of Blatchford, Seward, & De Costa—Mr. Seward and myself attend to the Court business, the other partners attend to the office—our technical phraseology is "attorney and counsel"—Mr. Blatchford is not a judge—Judge Blatch ford was a member of the firm till he went on the Bench five years ago—the Mr. Blatchford now in the firm is a nephew of his, but the name of the firm has not been changed.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Our firm got these letters from the Receiver; some were opened in his office, and some in ours—they were given tip by the New York Post Office authorities to the Receiver appointed by the Court.

JAMES RICHARDSON. I was a waiter at Durrant's Hotel, George Street, Portman Square, in December and January last—I know Macdonnell and Noyes—on Friday, 27th December, Noyes came to the hotel about 10. 30 at night; he took a bedroom—he gave the name of Edwin Noyes—the first night he occupied No. 2, the next day he engaged No. 20—he said he should require it for a month or two—he brought his luggage that dayhe remained upwards of a fortnight—early in January a number of letters came for him; I should think fifty or sixty in three successive days—about the second or third day he was there Macdonnell came; he asked for Edwin Noyes, an American gentleman; he was then in the coffee-room alone, having his breakfast; Macdonnell did not give his name—I showed him in in the ordinary way, and said "There is a gentleman for you"—they said "Good morning," or something of that sort, and Noyes immediately rose from the table, walked out into the hall, and put on his hat and coat—I can't say that they shook hands. I don't believe they did while I was in the room—there was a Hansom cab waiting at the door, which Macdonnell drove up in—Noyes said "Shall I go straight away with you now?"—they went off together in the cab to Baker Street station—Noyes carne back that night and slept at the hotel—next morning he told me that he should have to get up much earlier in the morning than he had done, that he had been very successful in obtaining what he wanted; he then referred to the number of letters he had received, and told me he had advertised for a situation as clerk, and had paid down a deposit of 300l. as security—I told him he ought to be very careful in whose hands he placed 300l., being a stranger in the country—he said, "Oh, not with such gentlemen as these; I guess I'm all right"—he said that he had not answered any of the letters, that the gentleman, Macdonnell, had called upon him; they had spent the day together, and he had introduced him to their bankers, and they came to terms—he left the hotel three times altogether; I have not the dates—the last time was on 4th February, that was the last meal he had in the house, and the 9th was the last time he was in the hotel.

Cross-examined by MR. HOLLINGS. The first I heard about my giving evidence was on 1st March—I left Durrant's hotel on 8th March—I gave evidence at the Mansion House about the 28th—nothing had drawn my attention to this conversation between 9th or 10th January and 1st March—that was the only conversation I had with Noyes—I always spoke a few words to him each morning when we met, but not what I call a conversation—he had no luggage when he came on 27th December; it came next day—I can't say what it was, it came after I had gone home at 10. 30 at night—I did not sleep at the hotel—the luggage was placed in No. 2.—I saw it afterwards—he took away two boxes, one was a black one and the other what I call an American box—I have repeated all the conversation word for word—my memory is just the same as if it occurred yesterday.

PETER WILLIAMS. I am a member of the firm of Messrs. Freshfield—I went over to New York in respect of this business—I received this letter (produced) from Mr. Nixon, a gentleman in the Custom House there on 4th June.

HENRY THOMAS HAGGER, I was salesman to Messrs. Kino, tailors, of 87, Regent Street, up to a month ago— "about 19th December last Noyes called and ordered some clothes; he gave the name of Brooks—he afterwards called and paid for them, 3l. 10s.—on 25th January he ordered some more which came to 3l. 17s. 6d., and again on the 28th, that order came to 56l. 8s.—he then gave his address at Nelson's Hotel, Great Portland Street—we kept the clothes till he called for them, which he did on the 31st, and paid for them—I also know Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell—I saw Macdonnell about 12th September; I knew him by that name; I did not hear him give his address—I believe the things were sent to the Alexandra Hotel—he afterwards gave me an order, and then gave his address as Chislehurst—I first saw Austin Bidwell in November—he gave that name and ordered a coat—about 7th January he ordered clothes amounting to 23l.—I have since seen in the possession of the police some of the clothes that were made for Noyes and Macdonnell.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I did not see Austin Bidwell after 7th January—I won't be certain whether I saw him after he was hurt—I don't recollect it—I did not see him try on the clothes.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Noyes came first alone—I am certain of that, he came alone on each occasion—he gave the name of Brooks—I have it here entered in in my book; it is my own entry; he did not sign it—I made the entry a very few minutes afterwards.

WILLIAM MILLS. I am a shopman in the employ of Messrs. Bax &. Co., hatters, 443, Strand—on 26th November George Bidwell called and purchased a hat—on 19th December he called and introduced a gentleman as Mr. Brooks, which I believe to be Noyes—he called again on 24th February.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I went before the Lord Mayor on 22nd May—George Bidwell and Noyes were then in custody—I was not certain about Noyes' face; he had the general appearance of Mr. Brooks, his build, and fair complexion, and so on—I had the impression that he was the man—I saw George Bidwell about eight times, a few minutes at a time.

THOMAS HENRY JESSEY. I am manager to Messrs. Bax & Co., umbrella manufacturers, 6, Duncannon Street, Strand—I know Austin Bidwell, Macdonnell, and George Bidwell, and by those names—I first saw Austin Bidwell and George Bidwell on 20th August last year—they brought this stick (produced) and I mounted it—I was directed to put upon it "G. M., from George and Austin"—Austin Bidwell afterwards called for it and took it away; the mounting cost 7l. 8s.—it is a gold snake with a diamond eye—I saw Macdonnell, I think, on 4th November, 1872—he gave his address at the Alexandra Hotel—I covered an umbrella for him at that date—I know Miss Vernon—I sent some umbrellas to 87, Upper Gloucester Place—Miss Vernon ordered them; she came in a carriage—I have since seen the umbrellas produced by the police.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I did not see Austin Bidwell after he was hurt—I don't know that he was hurt.

SARAH WHITE. I am a mantle maker, of 7, Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square—I have resided there ten years—I have been in the habit of letting the first and second floors of my house—towards the end of last January Mrs. Franklin came and took one of my rooms—I know the prisoners Hills and Macdonnell—I knew Hills as Mr. Franklin, and Macdonnell as Mr. Macdonnell—I first knew Hills on 2nd February—he came and engaged my drawing-room floor for himself and Mrs. Franklin; they passed as Mr. and Mrs. Franklin—he did not bring any luggage with him when he first came; he did not stay there that night—he came once or twice to call, and finally took up his residence on the 4th—he then brought a pair of boots for Mrs. Franklin and a galvanic battery, and he went away and fetched a portmanteau—he stayed until 1st March—I used to put out his things for the laundress—I saw on one of his shirts, "A. B., No. 1," and "G. B. Macdonnell" on another—he used to go out in the morning after breakfast and come back to dinner—I remember on one occasion Mrs. Franklin bringing me a telegram; there were three or four telegrams; they were all to defer dinner—on one occasion Mrs. Franklin brought some bonds and showed me—I did not see Hills do anything with them—I supplied some crystal cement to Mrs. Franklin—on 1st March Hills went out as usual in the morning—I went out about 5.30 in the afternoon, and when I came back his portmanteau was gone—he never returned.

JESSE WHITE. I am the husband of the last witness—I remember the bonds being shown to me—I went through them, and reckoned their value to be between 3,000l. and 4,000l.—they were American bonds—I was there when Macdonnell came and fetched away the box in a cab, on Saturday, 1st March.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. There were so many bonds of 500 dollars, and others of 100 dollars—500 dollars is 108l. 6s. 8d.—it was mere guess work: I just went through them—there was a great quantity.

WILLIAM HENRY DODMEAD. I am a salesman in the employ of Messrs. Pope & Plant, hosiers, of Waterloo Place—on 17th January Noyes came and ordered a linen shirt to be made as a sample—he came and tried it on, and ordered eleven others, at 21s. each—he gave the name of "E. F. Williams, Nelson's Hotel, Great Portland Street"—he called on 30th January, paid for them, and took them away with him.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I did not see him when he first came—there is an entry in the book; it was not made by me; Mr. Pearce received the order—he is not here— "the name "E. F. Williams" appears in the book in Mr. Pearce's writing—I tried the pattern-shirt on Noyes—I addressed him as Mr. Williams—he gave me his name and address at the time he decided on the pattern-shirt and placed the further order.

Re-examined. I have since seen the pattern-shirt and six others, seven out of the twelve, in possession of the officers.

CAROLINE BEARD. I am chambermaid at the Gresvenor Hotel—I know Austin Bidwell, Macdonnell, and Hills—I knew Austin Bidwell as Captain Bradshaw—he came to the hotel about the beginning of December, and left on the 27th—Macdonnell came there four or five days after Austin Bidwell, and he came in the name of Mapleson—before Macdonnell came Austin Bidwell said he had a friend coming—I asked him if I should engage another room; he said no, they would make the one do; and when Macdonnell came they occupied the same room, a large one—Austin Bidwell afterwards said he had another friend coming—I asked if he would want another room; he said "Yes," and I engaged No. 94—that was about the middle of December, and then Hills came, in the name of Brooks—he only stayed two or three nights.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I was not examined before the Lord Mayor—I gave information to the prosecution about two months ago; somebody came to me—they did not show me any photograph the first day, they did the next day, a photograph of Austin Bidwell—the last time I saw him was on 27th December.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I don't remember on what day I first saw Hills; I think it was about the 16th or 17th December—I saw him several times—his name was not mentioned to me before he came—I asked him his name to have it put on the arrival book, and he himself gave the name of Brooks.

AGNES BELINDA GREEN. I keep a private hotel at 17, St James's Place—I know Macdonnell by the name of Captain Macdonnell—he took some rooms at my hotel from 6th February to 3rd March; a sitting-room and bedroom adjoining, on the ground floor—my landlord is Mr. Walter Coulson, the surgeon—I did not see Macdonnell till the day before he left—I saw George Bidwell at my hotel several times—I don't know what he came for—he generally went into Captain Macdonnell's rooms—on 3rd March Macdonnell left, and took his luggage with him—he said he was going to Paris—I saw him about 11 o'clock; he left about 1 o'clock—the day after he left I went into his bedroom; it had not been let in the meantime—I found there some newspapers and blotting-paper, and a piece of paper with some printed impressions on it—these are them (produced)—I read something about these forgeries in the Daily Telegraph on the Monday, the day Macdonnell left, and I sent for the police that night—when I found these papers I gave them up to Smith, the City officer, also this copy of the City Directory, which Macdonnell left behind. (This had several pages torn out which contained the names and addresses of wood engraven, amongst others, Straker, 16, Ivy Lane, and Cheshire, 42, Paternoster Row, and others.) Macdonnell had been occupying the room from 6th February to 3rd March—no one else was in the habit of going into it, except the servants, to clean. (The pieces of blotting paper, four in number, had upon them, "E 2, New York, Feb. F. E. T. Y., Co., Deposit Co., 140, Broadway, New York. Russian Bank. Shroeder & Co. S. H. Hengler, St. Petersburgh 4th February, 187—. C. E. Dalton. Veleha. F. A. W., 1st Feb., '73. 10 thouounds. 10,000.") I remember on one occasion my manager bringing me a 10l. note to endorse.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I gave information the same day—I sent my manager to the Old Jewry to Inspector Bailey—I read it in the Daily Telegraph, and that was the reason I sent—I saw that a forgery had been committed, and two gentlemen were wanted—it was merely a paragraph—I don't know whether Noyes was in custody at that time—I read about it on the evening of the 3rd, about four or five hours after Macdonnell had left, before I found the blotting paper or anything of that kind—I sent information because my manager said the whole of their conduct was most extraordinary, not from what I saw myself.

FRANTZ ANTON HEROLD. I am manager of Miss Green's private hotelit is our practice not to take persons into the house without an introduction—I remember Macdonnell coming there, he gave me the introduction of Dr. Coulson—he engaged a bedroom and sitting-room on the ground floor—the bedroom window looked into St. James's Place—I have seen the prisoner whom I now know as George Bidwell there—he first came on the 7th of February—I only knew him by the name of "George"—Macdonnell used to call him "George"—the first day Macdonnell was there he said he would like to have the fires as large as they could be made—he said he felt cold, chilly, he came from a hot country, from South America—it was his only complaint when he said the fire was not large enough, he would like to have a larger fire—George Bidwell was there on the 10th of February—I procured a "Continental Guide" for him—Macdonnell asked me if I had got a small wooden box, about a foot long, or a little more—George Bidwell was present—they said they wanted to send something to India, and they gave me a little machine and a cloak to wrap the machine in—I can't tell what sort of a machine it was—I had a box made by a boxmaker to put it in—the boxmaker fastened it up, and I gave it back to Macdonnell fastened up, all ready—after Macdonnell had been with us a day or two, he said "Tell the servants before they enter to knock first loud, and enter when I say 'Come in —˜"—he stayed with us till the 3rd March—George Bidwell used to come there nearly every day about 8 o'clock in the morning—he might come earlier or later than 8—he generally used to ring the front door bell, and some of the servants or myself opened the door—I noticed also that Macdonnell opened the door once himself—he used to open the door in his shirt sleeves, because the bedroom was near the front door—I observed George Bidwell come in sometimes without ringing the door bell—I heard him knocking at Macdonnell's window with a stick or umbrella—Macdonnell came out and was going to open the door, but I was first—George Bidwell used to be there nearly all the part of the forenoon, and he used to go out and in several times during the day—they were always working, writing in the bedroom—they used candles and gas day and night almost; they used all the gas-burners there were in the bedroom—the sitting-room was at the back—there are two entrances into the bedroom, one from the sitting-room and one from the hall—the gas globes were all cracked with the high pressure of gas, and the ceiling was very black—the bedroom blinds used generally to be down in the day time as well as at night—Macdonnell asked me for a piece of glass—I gave him this piece (producedi, and he said it would do nicely—I found it in the room, after he left, as it is now; I did not see anything particular about it—I noticed a great deal of luggage about the room while he was there, and there were papers on the table where he used to write—they were like bills of exchange—I remember Macdonnell receiving two telegrams one day—he came home on Sunday night about 12.30—he had received the telegram the week before—he sent for me when he came in on the Sunday night—he said he now knew what those two telegrams meant that he had received before—I had had some talk with him before as to what was in the telegrams—there was something about George and 500l.—on the Sunday night he said the telegrams came from his father, and he had received a letter from his father, and in the letter he understood what those two telegrams meant—he asked me if he could telegraph directly, and in the end he went out himself to Charing Cross to telegraph somewhere—the last day I saw George Bid well was on the 1st March—Macdonnell left on the 3rd; he could not make up his mind whether he would leave or not—it was a very wet day, and he said several times before that he would leave, but he had never done so, and on 3rd March he said "I think I am going to leave to-day," and I asked him "Will not you wait? it is such bad weather for travelling;" and he said "Yes, I will wait, I won't go," and after all he made up his mind and went—he sent his baggage off in two cabs, and walked himself—he did not leave any address; he said he was going to Paris and was coming back that very night—I said "You are a very quick traveller"—when he went away he said "There is a book and a case, if any of my friends call will you give them to them"—I found several foreign newspapers lying about in the bedroom and sitting-room after they had gone—when Macdonnell first came he gave me 170l. in gold, and asked me to give him Bank of England notes for it—I did so—Helen Vernon came once with George Bidwell; I can't say exactly when that was, but I remember it was on a Sunday.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I have seen them both writing in the bedroom, but principally I have seen Macdonnell—he was always writing when I have seen him in the bedroom—I could not say the blinds were always down, but nearly always—I am manager at this place—I used to be waiter—at that time, I was head waiter and manager—I went into the bedroom when I was asked for, and he was frequently writing then—I went in sometimes and asked for orders—he admitted me while he was writing and all these papers about him—that was in the day time as well as in the evening—he used to talk a great deal—when the gentlemen were there three or four days I had a kind of suspicion about them—I was suspicious before he went away—I said something to Miss Green two or three weeks before he went, and after he had gone she sent me for the police—I did not read the Telegraph that day before I went to the police—Miss Green read to me about the forgery about 5 or 6 o'clock in the afternoon—I had not heard anything about it before—I was suspicious because they used to have writing that I never saw before in men of business—we very rarely have men of business at the hotel; chiefly officers and gentlemen—I took the glass that I produced out of a picture frame—there may be importance in it but I don't know—I did not see it used for anything.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have seen George Bidwell writing in the sitting-room on one or two occasions—I can't say that they were little notes—I was only there a minute or two at a time, sometimes I may have been a little longer, sometimes shorter—I have seen George Bidwell write in the bedroom—Macdonnell was there at the same time—I have seen the two gentlemen writing together in the bedroom—I could not say when it was, they were generally together.

THOMAS BROWN BARNARD. I am salesman and cashier to Messrs. Newton & Co., tailors, of Hanover Square—I know the prisoner George Bidwell by the name of Horace Arthur—he came to us first on 4th May last year, he did not give his address on the first occasion, but he afterwards gave it as the Langham Hotel—he ordered a quantity of clothes, in value about 43l.—I asked him for a reference, but he gave a deposit of 10l. on account instead—he called, tried the clothes on, and afterwards called for them—I did not see him again after the month of May, until 6th December—he then gave me an order for some more clothes—on 20th December I saw him again—on that occasion he was accompanied by Hills—I knew him as E. F. Williams, the address was "Care of Horace Arthur, Langham Hotel"—I also know George Macdonnell as George Mapleson—I made clothes for Hills to the value of 21l. 15s.—he paid for them on 4th January—I first saw Mr. Mapleson on 12th December— "he came with George Bidwell—I saw George Bidwell on 21st December, and he gave me an order for a dressing gown as a present to his friend, Mr. Mapleson—about the end of January he gave me an order for a hunting suit; a black hunting coat, a striped waistcoat, and Bedford cord breeches—he directed me to send them to the Rugby Railway Station, and on that day he paid 50l. on account of the money that was owing to us—I sent the hunting suit off to Rugby on 18th February—I afterwards saw him, and asked him whether he had received the things, and he said he had—I saw him once or twice after that, and on the 4th of March I received this letter from him in consequence of which I altered a coat to which that refers—on the following day, the 5th, he called—he was in a very agitated state of mind, and his manner very agitated indeed—he asked hurriedly to have all the goods we had packed up, his account made out, and he would pay it, and take away the clothes there and then—he paid the account, and took away the clothes—I have been shown a quantity of things by the officers in this case, and I recognise some I made for Horace Arthur, and some I made for E. F. Williams.

WILLIAM MEARS NEWTON. I am a tailor—I am the principal of the last witness—in December we had a customer named Williams—a customer named Horace Arthur introduced him—George Bidwell is the customer Horace Arthur—I also knew Macdonnell by the name of George Mapleson.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Arthur did not give me his name as Williams; the customer himself gave me his name—Arthur brought him as a customer; he did not mention his name—we take the name down after we receive the order.

ANN THOMAS. In April last year I lived at 21, Enfield Road, South Kingsland—I know Austin Bidwell, Macdonnell, and George Bidwell— George Bidwell came after my apartments in April, 1872—he took lodgings at my house—South Kingsland is Haggerstone—I asked him 15s., but he paid me 1l. a week, on the terms that he was to leave at any time—he gave the name of Mr. Anthony—there was another person with him, but I never ascertained his name—Austin Bidwell and Macdonnell came there while George Bidwell was staying with me—they breakfasted every morning after they first came—a parcel came for Mr. Warren—I sent my daughter up with it; it was kept—George Bidwell remained a little more than a week—when he left he took the latch-key with him—I asked the fair gentleman, whose name I did not know, to ask Mr. Anthony to please to send it back, and I received this letter enclosing the key: (Read: 29th April, 72. Terminus Hotel, London Bridge, S. E. Mrs. Thomas. Dear Madam,—In behalf of friends and self, we offer you our sincere thanks for the kindness and attention received during our stay at your house; everything being neat and the cooking superb. Regretting that we are called out of town so soon, we are very truly yours, C. W. Anthony and friends.")—Mr. Anthony left the other gentleman Living with me that week—after George Bidwell left, Austin Bidwell called and took away some things—in March in the present year I received this letter from Mr. Anthony: (This was dated "Edinboro' March 14, 1873," signed "Anthony," and requested the witness to accommodate him with a lodging on the following Tuesday or Wednesday.) I was full at that time—that letter contained an envelope addressed to the Pitt Street postoffice, Edinburgh, but I don't think there was any name—I engaged a sitting-room and bedroom for him at a neighbour's opposite, Mrs. Lovell, 6, Enfield Road—I received a note from Mrs. Lovell about the lodgings, and forwarded it to the address at Edinburgh—this is the letter (produced).

GEORGE OKE. I am chief clerk at the Mansion House—a witness named James McKelvie was examined there before the Lord Mayor on 4th April—the prisoners had an opportunity of cross- examining him at the time—his deposition was taken on the first appearance of George Bidwell, and there were then only George Bidwell and Noyes before the Court—he was re-called after the others were arrested, to afford them an opportunity of cross-examining him, that was on 27th June, he was re-sworn and the evidence was read over. (A certified copy of the death of James McKelvie, on 15th July, 1873, was put in, describing him as a private detective, aged 36. Cause of death, typhus fever.

DAVID FERGUSON. I am a detective officer in Edinburgh—I knew the late James McKelvie, who was a private detective—he is dead—that is his signature. (The deposition was read as follows: "I am a private detective officer, residing at 120, Nicholson Street, in the City of Edinburgh. I have within half an hour arrived here from Scotland. I received certain information from Gibson, Craig & Co., of Edinburgh, writers to the signet, and in consequence of that I watched the house No. 22, Cumberland Street, Edinburgh, on Wednesday last, the 2nd April instant, from about twenty-five minutes past 10 o'clock in the morning. It is a private house. The prisoner came out of the house to the door, looked round and went back again, and remained in about twenty minutes, and then he came out, and from his appearance I suspected he was George Bidwell. I watched him and saw where he went. He posted a letter in a pillar-box, and then he went to a stationer's shop, and then to a baker's shop. When standing at the door he looked around and came out and went around the corner, and in about twenty yards he set off to run as hard as he could run. I ran after him, he ran into a blacksmith's shop, from which he turned back and passed me. I took no notice of him as he did so; he walked on a little and then started to run again. He then ran down Drummond Place and Scotland Street; he went through Scotland Street lane, and over the Church railings, jumped over several stone walls, one after the other. I followed him, and went through a private house into Scotland Street again. I got round to the street by another way, and was in the street as soon as he. I ran him to Duncan Street, Stockbridge, in which he came to a standstill, and could not run any further. He made several thrusts at me with a stick which he had in his hand. I took out of my pocket a small baton and held it out as if it were a pistol, and told him —˜to stand and be a gentleman, and give me his hand; to be a brother and not a coward. 'I got hold of his hand and held him. (I called him a 'brother' because I fancied he gave me a Masonic sign.) I got assistance and drove him in a cab to Messrs. Gibson, Craig & Co.'s office. I said 'You are George Bidwell; you are wanted for the forgery on the Bank of England. 'He spoke some foreign language, and I don't know what he said. I understood him to say that he was not a Fenian. I said 'I know that; I was not looking for any Fenians. 'When I got him to the office I asked him if he could give any account of himself, and why he ran over those private grounds and stone walls? and he would not give me any answer. A few minutes afterwards he said he was subject to giddiness in the head, and took to those fits of running off. I asked him what I might call him, and he said 'You may call me James, if you like. 'He would give no answers to any questions after that He spoken very broken English, like a Frenchman. I gave him a book to read. He said either his father or mother belonged to France, and the other to Germany. He said he had been in Paris. I told him there was an old friend of his doing five years there just now. I bound up his leg, which was cut and bleeding. He was then handed over to the police of Edinburgh, and I had nothing more to do with him. The stationer's shop was kept by Mr. Anderson, into which I saw him go. I did not search him or the lodgings. I only watched the lodgings.—Cross-examined by DR. KENEALY, Counsel for the prisoner Noyes. I apprehended him about 2 o'clock, and handed him over to the police about 4 o'clock. I believe a telegram was sent to London at once. I believe the lodgings were searched between 2 and 4 o'clock on Wednesday. I arrived in London to-day at a quarter to ten o'clock. I was not asked to go to London that day.—Re-examined by MR. POLAND. I was telegraphed for yesterday.—Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY, Counsel for George Bidwell:—When the prisoner came to a standstill in Duncan Street, Stockbridge, as described in my former deposition just read, there was a coal porter standing about fifty yards off, and I called to him to come to me and assist He would not see the thrusting of the stick by the prisoner George Bidwell He might have seen it. He might have seen me holding my baton out as if it were a pistol, or heard what I said to the prisoner. The coal porter came up afterwards. That is the assistance I meant I got. I took hold of Bid well's hand. The prisoner said — ˜I am not a Fenian' Many persons who were got around us then might have heard it. I had never seen the prisoner before, to my knowledge. I have been in France, but not in Paris. I have private information about the person I mentioned in my former deposition as doing five years in Paris. I knew that person in Edinburgh five years ago. His name is Logan. I never saw Logan with George Bidwell. When I mentioned it to Bidwell he said, 'You'll pardon me, but I can't answer your questions. 'He might have said also, that it was a lie. Re-examined by MR. POLAND, Counsel for the Prosecution:—I was toying to see if I could drag anything out of him. I knew Logan. The coal porter did assist me. (Signed) James McKelvie."

ALFRED CLOVER. In March last, I was in the employ of Messrs. Davis & Co., receiving agents in Tichbourne Street—on 3rd March, Macdonnell came with three packages to be forwarded—he gave the name of Gray—he asked me to fetch some labels, tags; I fetched tacks in mistake—he asked me to go again—I told him I could not leave the office, so he went himself and got some—he wrote the address on them and fastened the labels on the boxes—I forwarded the luggage to our office in the City, and from there it would go to Liverpool—these are the boxes (produced.)

WILLIAM GREEN. I am a detective Serjeant of the City of London Police—I took possession of these three trunks at Liverpool—in one of them I found this letter (produced).

JOHN ROBERT GRAY. I am assistant to Messrs. Hawes & Son, jewellers, of 14, Cranbourne Street—in December last I sold a watch to a person who gave the name of George Bidwell, of 87, Upper Gloucester Place, I could not swear to the prisoner—the same person came again on 29th January, and I then sold him a brilliant ring for 105l.—he paid me with a 100l. bank note and five sovereigns—I did not write on the note—I know nothing of the writing in this note—(looking at one) I don't know anything about it—I paid the note into the Bond Street branch of the City Bank the same day—I sold the same person a carbuncle, diamond, and enamelled suite on 5th February for 52l. 10s. he paid me in gold—I have since seen the suite at the Mansion House—this is it (produced), and this is the watch.

HELEN ETHEL VERNON (re- examined). This suite of jewellery and this watch were given to me by George Bidwell in February, I think.

WILLIAM WESTON Goss. I am cashier at the Bond Street branch of the City Bank—MESSRS. Hawes & Son, jewellers, keep an account there—on 29th January last this 100l. note was paid in to their account—it is No. 84,052, dated, 25th March, 1872. (This was one of the notes paid to Macdonnell on 28th January at the Bank, in exchange for gold.)

WILLIAM GARDNER. I am in the service of my father, a commission agent and diamond merchant, formerly of Leith Street, Edinburgh—in February last I was living at 14, Boxworth Grove, Richmond Road, Bamsbury—while there I received a letter from Mr. Eckford, a friend of mine, in consequence of which on 27th February I went to 17, St. James Place—I asked for Mr. Macdonnell—I was shown into a room on the ground floor and there saw Macdonnell—I showed him some diamonds—it was evening; after looking at them he desired me to call again next morning, which I did at 10 o'clock—he then bought one large diamond and three small ones for 300l.—he gave me in payment three 100l. Bank of England notes—I made out a bill, and gave him a receipt, this is it—I made a memorandum of the numbers of the notes, this is one of them, No. 95,691; and the others were 99,055 and 99,056—on this occasion Macdonnell showed me a dressing bag which he said had been presented to him—he asked me to call again in the afternoon as he had a friend there who would very likely buy some diamonds, I returned about 4 o'clock—I then saw George Bidwell, Macdonnell introduced him, but I forget the name—I showed him some diamonds—he looked at them, but did not buy any.

BENJAMIN NATHAN. I am a dealer in diamonds and precious stones, 218, St. James Terrace, South Lambeth Road—on 24th August last I was at Messrs. Welby's shop in Garrick Street—I there saw George Bidwell, and sold him some diamonds for 63l. 10s., he gave the name of Mr. Charles Warren, Charing Cross Hotel—after that I had three appointments with him; I met him at several places, the Charing Cross Hotel, the Terminus Hotel, London Bridge, and Morley's Hotel—on 6th March I saw him in Messrs. Welby's shop, at 10. 30 in the morning, and we went from there together to Bibra's Hotel, St. Martin's Laue—I there sold him four diamond lockets, two pearl pins, one turquoise and parrot pin, in the shape of a parrot, a small gold keyless watch, and one fine gold Brazilian necklet, to hold three or four lockets; they came to 114l.—he paid me—he seemed a little excited after the business was done.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I was asked to attend as a witness about a week ago—I saw George Bid well four times; Charles Warren was the name he gave me, and I went to the Charing Cross Hotel and asked for him by that name—he told me the name on 24th August, when I first met him in Long Acre in a public- house—these are my entries, made at the time.

JOHN HENRY WELBY. I am a wholesale diamond merchant in Garrick Street—I recognise Macdonnell and George Bidwell—I believe both of them were at my place in February last—I had seen them previously, towards the latter part of 1872, but no business was done then—Mr. Nathan was at my place on 6th March when George Bidwell was there; I knew him as Warren—he asked for diamonds—I showed him some, he selected 280l. worth, and paid me in Dutch bank notes—Mr. Nathan was not present at the time, he was in the office.

EDWARD FRANCIS GEDGE. I am an underwriter at the Royal Exchange Assurance Office—I know Macdonnell—he came to ray room on 24th February last, and asked whether we took insurances on bonds to New York—I said "Yes"—he had a bundle of American bonds in his hand, which he wished to insure; he gave me the value—I filled up the slip for him with the numbers of the bonds—this (produced) is the slip book—he called over to me the numbers of the bonds from the bonds themselves, and I filled them in on the slip—he said the policy was to bear the name of Edward Noyes Hills, London to New York, care of (blank) New York, registered letter—the amount of the insurance was 2, 100l.—he signed the slip "For Edward Noyes Hills, George Macdonnell"—I have the policy, it was never delivered out—it has the numbers of the bonds copied into it—on the following day he came again and asked me to do another insurance—he gave me the particulars upon a slip which I have here "Policy to be in the name of A. Biron Bidwell, New York; 32, 520 bonds, valued at 3, 600"—I have the slip he brought with the numbers of the bonds on it—he brought it ready written.

GEORGE PETER RICHARDSON. I am a clerk in the Royal Exchange Assurance Office—I was there on 25th February when Macdonnell came about the second policy—he asked me to keep the policy as he was going on the Continent for some time with Hills, the person named in the first policy.

ROBERT BOWLES. In April last year I was carrying on business as a banker, as Bowles Brothers—I never saw Austin Biron Bidwell.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I do not personally know all my customers, I cannot call to mind all their names, they are so numerous—my books would show the customers we have—I had not anything to do directly with the financial part—there were two managers, Mr. Keith and Mr. Seldon; I did the agency.

Re-examined. I never heard of Austin Biron Bid well, either as Bid well or Warren, banking with us.

HENRY HARRIS. I am counter manager to Messrs. Baum & Sons, money changers, 58, Lombard Street, City—I know George Bidwell by the name of Nicholl—on 30th November I first saw him; on that occasion I changed 400l. in bank notes for him into foreign money—on 21st January he gave me 1, 300l. in Bank of England notes, and I gave him 1, 220l. in French paper and gold—these are the bank notes, one 500l. and eight 100l., they have our stamps on them and are all entered in our books—on 24th January I saw a person who gave the name of Vosges, 28, George Street Manchester Square, and changed for him five 100l. notes into Dutch bank notes, that is 6,000 florins Dutch money—on 8th February I saw George Bidwell again—I knew him all along as Nicholl, he brought me 250l. in English gold, and I gave him Austrian and French money to the amount of 253l. in exchange—the balance remained over till Monday the 10th, when he brought 170l. in Bank of England notes, and I gave him in exchange for them foreign money to balance the account up— "on the Friday before the Saturday that Noyes was taken, George Bidwell brought me two 100l. notes, and wanted to change them for English gold—he asked for light gold, as he wanted to give it to a friend who had paid him some light gold a few days before, and he wanted to pay him back in his own coin—it was the first thing in the morning and I was not able to give him the change as we had not commenced business—he came half an hour afterwards, and was still too early—I took him to our brokers, Messrs. Barclay, and left him to receive the gold, these (produced) are the notes.

JAMES ANSELL. I am a clerk in Barclay, Bevan & Co's bank—on Friday, 28th February, the last witness came with George Bidwell, the second prisoner from me, and changed two 100l. notes in his presence—I did not give him light gold.

HAROLD ANTHONY SMITH. I am a clerk at Messrs Baring's—on 29th January I received an application for a letter of credit in New York for 1,000l.—it was given at the request of E. N. Hales, in favour of J. W. Nixon, No. 13,083—Nixon was of New York, but that is not stated in the letter of credit—the person who wished for the letter of credit gave his adress Brighton—I asked him if that was sufficient, he said "Yes"—the letter of credit was paid for at the time—this is it (produced) and this is the draft contained under the letter of credit—it bears Nixon's signature—these notes (produced) are what I received in payment for the letter of credit.

JAMES SEARLE. I am a stock and share broker, of Bartholomew house, London—I know Macdonnell, he called on me and asked if we were members of the Stock Exchange, and stock and share brokers, I said yes, and asked his name, and to whom we were indebted for the introduction—he said that he knew no one in London, he had but lately arrived from abroad,. and was staying at Chislehurst and could give no introduction—he asked the prices of American Securities—I told him it was not our custom, in fact we never did business with anybody without an introduction—he said that he did not know it was necessary, but he wished to buy 10,000l. worth of bonds and would pay for them in bank notes or gold if necessary—we again declined to do the business, and he said that he would show us a letter of credit next day on Messrs Morgan, by way of introduction, and as I knew that Messrs. Morgan did not give letters without an introduction, I considered that it was sufficient, we purchased the bonds, and be left us a 500l. Bank of England note as a deposit, and brought the balance next day in bank notes, of which I have got the numbers—we sent the notes over to the Bank of England and had them examined before we delivered the bonds, and on receiving the bonds he signed our book—on 1st March he came again, and said he wanted to invest, I think he said 20,000l., but he did not fix upon anything—this (produced) is a correct account of the bonds I delivered to him—the first lot was 50,000 dollars—this memorandum of the numbers of the notes he paid me is quite correct.

ALFRED JOSEPH BAKER. I am clerk to Jay Cooke, McCulloch & Co.—I know Austin Bidwell as F. A. Warren— I first saw him some time in May, 1872, and again in August, about the sale of some Portuguese Stockhe handed me some stock, and I handed it back again, and he gave me a receipt for it—I first saw Hills on 9th January this year, and again on the 10th, 20th, 25th, 27th, and February 4th, 5th, 10th, 12th, 13th, 21st, and 25th—on the 28th I received this letter from Noyes, requesting us to purchase 1,000 dollars for E. Noyes—I have gone through this account of the various purchases; it is correct—I have also an account of how the bonds were paid for, in a tabulated form, but it is not here.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I knew Austin Bidwell by the name of Warren; he made three purchases of bonds in May, and once in August, and twice in September; no, I think it was only once in September, but I saw him twice in September—there was not a purchase on 14th September; he paid for bonds on 13th—there was only one purchase in September 25,000—the purchase was made on the 13th; he had part on the 13th, and the rest on the 14th—he left the Portuguese bonds with me to sell, fixing a reserve price, and as I could not get that price I returned them to him—American bonds are purchased by Americans to a large extent; we put American bonds on the market to a large amount; 75,000,000 of dollars in the course of a year by our house alone—the transaction on 9th January was not with Austin Bidwell, but with Noyes—I had no transaction with Austin Bidwell after September, to my recollection, personally.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. We sold some bonds on 9th January—I did not notice who it was to particularly, but I had no transaction with anybody but Noyes, that I recollect—I am not certain that I saw Noyes and had transactions with him on the 9th, or not; the only time I speak with certainty to Noyes was on the 25th I think; all the subsequent transactions were with Noyes, and those I speak to with certainty—on one occasion he was going to refer to Horton, and I said "I thought you were Horton," and then he said he was Morton's clerk—I looked upon him as Horton's clerk, acting for Horton—I speak to Austin Bidwell as Warren; he came to me at all times in the day—he said they were going to have an office in the Poultry—there was nothing unusual to attact my attention in any way.

Re-examined. On 29th January he ordered 80,000 dollars, and left a cheque for them—this is the receipt for the Portuguese bonds (produced).

ALFRED LIDINQTON. I am chief cashier to Clewes, Habicht, & Co., American agents of Broad Street, City— "I know George Bidwell under the name of W. J. Spaulding; he paid six 100l. Bank of England notes for some bonds—I saw him a few days after and received a small balance that was due to me—on 20th February he left three bills of exchange with me, and wished to know if they were good acceptances—I said if he left them I would look into them and see—he left them and came again and brought some more, eight or ten altogether—these are them, but there was a bank post-bill, that I am not certain about, for 19l. 4s. 1d.—all the others I am certain of—when he came again I inquired if he had not a banking account in London or on the Continent—he said no, he had not at present—I said it was usual with bankers in London to leave bills for a few days for inquiry before they were discounted, and he left them with me that day—he called again a day or so after, and I asked him if he had not any address, and if he would sign his name in our signature-book—he signed his name "W. J. Spaulding, Brighton"—I said "Brighton is a large place, Mr. Spaulding, you must have some address there?"—he said No, Brighton was sufficient, and it would find him in letters or telegrams—I said "I presume you have property there?"—he said "No"—I saw Mr. Habicht, and declined to discount the bills—the Nos. of the notes were 84,054 to 84,059, six 100l. notes in consecutive numbers.

ALBERT JORDAN. I am a clerk to Clewes, Habicht & Co.—I was present when the bonds were purchased—these are three 1,000l. bonds purchased on that occasion, Nos. 21, 272, 21, 273, and 55, 118—I have a receipt, signed "J. Horton, per E. Noyes"—this is the receipt (produced).

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. On 5th February we received the order from Noyes—he told me he was Mr. Horton's clerk, and gave me a cheque on the Western Branch of the Bank, in favour of Horton and endorsed by Horton—he said he would leave the cheque to be cashed, and gave the Continental Bank as a reference—I went there with him, and he was identified as being in Mr. Horton's employment—I left him there, and took the cheque to the Western Branch, and it was paid—Noyes told me that Horton was an American merchant, staying at the London Bridge Terminus Hotel—the receipt is signed for Horton, per E. Noyes—I would not do business with him till he gave me a reference, and then he referred to the Continental Bank.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLET. It was my impression at the time that the person I knew as Spaulding was taller than George Bidwell, but I don't know whether I was right.

Re-examined. My moral conviction is that George Bidwell is Spaulding, but I am not positive.

HENRY WEST. I am clerk to Messrs. J. S. Morgan & Co., American merchants—I know George Macdonnell— "he called at our place of business on 1st February, 1873, and brought a sum of 1, 280l.—he proposed to open an account with our house—I said that it was the usual practice to have a reference before we entertained them, and I think he produced on that occasion a letter from our Paris correspondent, and said "I have a letter from them"—I said "That is something, we will take the money and make further inquiries"—he deposited the sum of 1, 280l., 80l. in gold, and the rest in bank notes—he came again on 20th February, and said that he was about to return to America, and I paid him the deposit in a cheque on the London Joint Stock Bank for 1, 278l. 9s. 3d.; the difference was our charge for commission—this is his receipt for the money—it was signed by him when I gave him the cheque.

ALFRED JAMES GRIFFIN. I am a clerk in the London Joint Stock Bank—MESSRS. J. S. Morgan & Co. keep an account there—on 20th February I cashed this cheque for 1, 278l. 9s. 3d. over the counter—I paid it in twelve 100l. notes, Nos. 95, 680 to 91; one 50l. note, No. 27, 136; one 20l. note, 44, 613; one 5l. note, 19, 188; and 3l. 9s. 3d. in cash—these are a portion of the notes—there is a 100l. note missing, and the 5l. note—the number of the 100l. note that is missing is 95, 688.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. The numbers run consecutively, 95, 680 to 95, 691 inclusive—they come to us in a parcel from the Bank—we invariably count them through twice when we give them in payment, and we look to see that the numbers are consecutive—I won't swear that I have taken each individual note and looked at it—the notes are brought new from the Bank of England and put in our till, and we know by practice those notes that are consecutive—I have never heard of any mistake being made where they have not run consecutively—it is the general practice of bankers to put down the first and last numbers—I would not swear to whom I paid those notes—I remember the affair of the 300l. cheque at Dover; I heard about it—it was refused payment by the London and County Bank—their answer was that its endorsement was irregular, and it came back through the clearing-house with that answer on it.

Re-examined. I have no doubt whatever that the twelve 100l. notes were in consecutive numbers—the date of the payment of the cheque was 21st February.

THOMAS STRAKER. I am an engraver and printer, at 16, Ivy Lane, Paternoster Row—I know the firm of Nelson & Co., printers, by name—I did not know them till I was at the Mansion House—I know now that Mr. Chaloner is a partner in that firm—I knew the prisoner George Bid well by the name of Brooks—about 18th December he called and said he was recommended by Nelson's—he brought two copper plates with blank bill forms upon them and asked me if I worked from copper plate—I told him yes, and he told me that he was recommended from Nelson's, and he asked me what I would do him 500 for—one of the plates had the figure "1," and the other had the word "First"—he wanted the figure "1" transferred to the plate that had the word "First," and the other he wanted transferred to the other plate—I told him I could do it, and he asked me what I would do 500 copies for, and I told him 15s., but I said I could not get them done before Christmas—he said if I could get them done he would give me 5s. extra, and I said I would try—after he gave me instructions, he asked me to explain, that he might know that I understood his instructions—I did so, and he said "Very well, that will do"—the plates were left with me—on that occasion I had merely to transfer the different figures—I made up the stone from the plates and printed from the stone—some of those forms were ready the day before Christmas Day—I went out of town the morning before, and on my return I found that some of the forms had been delivered—I afterwards saw him and printed some forms with the word "Second," and some with the figure "2"—the forms had scrolls on them—he did not bring any scrolls at that time—the scrolls were engraved upon the plates—he came again at the end of December or the beginning of January—the order he gave then was merely to add something to the plate and print a few more—on one occasion I engraved for him on slips of copper some names of places—some of the names were engraved on the bill plates themselves, names of several countries, Hongkong, Cairo, Bombay, Valparaiso, Yokohama, and Alexandria—they were ordered at different times—some plates we made use of for several bills—I put some of those names into some of the bill forms—I also engraved on slips of copper the names of the Union Bank of London and the London and Westminster Bank, and I also printed the names of the banks on the body of some of the bills—I remember on one occasion his bringing two plates with scrolls on them—these are the scrolls (produced), they are for making the ornamental part across the bill—I can't say what date he brought those—he brought four, but I tried to make use of two—I told him I would try what I could do with them—I transferred them to wood and found they were too black, and afterwards, instead of using those scrolls, he selected two patterns out of my pattern-book—I engraved the scrolls he selected on a separate piece of copper and transferred them to the bills—I engraved two bill plates for bill forms for him also, and printed bills from those plates, and inthe centre of the scroll on the bill forms I printed certain names—H. C. Streeter and T. Perkins were printed on the bills printed from the plates that he brought me—and the names, D. R. Howell and Juan Perez were printed in the scroll of the bills which I printed from the plates that I had made—in printing Juan Perez at first, I spelt the name wrong, "Jaun" instead of "Juan"—the prisoner was very cross about it, and I of course said I would alter the name and print them over again—I altered it and printed forms with the name properly spelt—the last time I saw him was about the 22nd or 23rd of February—I should say I saw him on an average about twice a week from the 18th December to that date—he said he was getting up samples for bills of exchange—he came on 22nd or 23rd February, and took all the forms away except these four blocks of the scrolls which I had not used—he took away everything else—he asked to look at some of the forms I had printed on the stone, and he wished me to show him the way to take them off the stone, and I got one of my apprentices to show him—the bill form on the stone was entirely effaced— "that is done with snake stone—I told him afterwards that if he offered me 100l., I could not produce him another bill from that stone without retransferring it—he said that would do—he did not say why he wished the stone erased—these bills are all on forms printed by me—I can't say positively that this one of "Oppenheim & Co. "is mine, but I am pretty well sure because of the name; all the others I am certain of.

Cross-examined by MR. BBSLEY. From the copper plates I had a perfect form on the stone, and then the printing could be done in a day or two—I had not to wet the paper for the purpose—the bills with the name of "Streeter" on were all done at one time—I can't give you the date when they were done—Juan Perez was the last I did, because I made a mistake in the name—Howell" was the one I did just before that; the order for those two was given at the same time—when I finished printing "Streeter's" bills, I obliterated that form, transferred another from the copper-plate, and went on printing another form and so on, till I got through the whole—I think it was about the 20th February that I ordered my apprentice to efface "Howell's" form from the stone; it may have been as late as the 23rd—Juan Perez" was done after that alteration—no suspicion was excited in my mind at any time—these were mere blank bill forms when they left my hands, just as specimens shown by Messrs. Waterlow's to their customers.

Re-examined by MR. POLAND. I can't say how many forms I printed altogether—I should say about 100 copies.

WILLIAM MITCHELL. I am a die sinker and stamp cutter, of 29, Bell Alley, Moorgate Street; in November last my place of business was 91, Queen Street, Cheapside—on 20th November George Bidwell came and ordered an endorsing stamp to stamp the names on bills of exchange and things of that sort; it was to have a handle to it, and I was to put on it "Sub-country man. "and "Secret" underneath the impression—the stamp on this bill (the subject of the indictment) is from the die I cut—the impression on this paper (found at Macdonnell's) is rather heavier than the one on the bill, and I do not recognise it as the same stamp.

Cross-examined by George Bidwell. I know that the impression on the bill is from the stamp I made, because I kept an impression of it, and forwarded it to Messrs. Freshfield, and they compared the impression with the one on the bill and found it to be the same—I recognise you by the usual means; I should be stupid if I did not recognise a man afterwards, especially if I looked at him two or three times as I did you—he had no the same appearance you have now, he had no whiskers and he had a moustache, curled at each end, in the French style—the words on the stamp are cut in very ordinary block letters—I have little doubt that some letters could be printed like this, with type of the same size, which could be procured at any printing office or type founder's—we can do anything in type—I should say it is impossible that you could fit up words with exactly the same dimensions, without having my stamp to go by; I mean as to the relative distance of the words—if the person to whom I gave the stamp had lost it, or given it to another person, he could have another made exactly like it, but he would have to have something to guide him as to the relative size and distance, or else the two impressions would not be the same—any other engraver could engrave or set up a stamp exactly like the one I cut, if he had this bill, or one of the thousands of other bills the Bank issues.

GEORGE BOULE CHALLONER. I was a member of the late firm of Nelson & Co., of 66 and 57, Oxford Arms Passage, Warwick Lane, Paternoster Row—I know George Bidwell, the second prisoner from the Jury—I first saw him on 9th December last—he gave no name or address—he wanted an electro plate to be set up in type—I was to put German words in it—I do not recollect them now—he gave me this written paper (produced)—the writing is in pencil—I afterwards fastened it on this larger sheet—there were no particular instructions about mounting it, or for a handle, but I gave instructions for it to be mounted—he paid 2s. on account—I did as he directed, and mounted the plate on a piece of wood, and then took this impression (produced) from it, with the words "electro mounted" on it—I wrote those words at the time I sent the proof to the foundry—that is the order for casting—it was set up "tur," and altered to "tun," the "t" should have been an "f," and the copy was closely followed—r" was set up first, and altered to "n"—after I heard of this case I got back the proof from the foundry—I also found the original paper that George Bidwell produced, and have it here—he called in a few days, and I delivered the stamp to him—he asked me for a small portion of printing ink, and I supplied it, also a brass rule with which lines are printed—I charged 2s. for the stamp and 4 1/2 d. for the ink and rule, and he took them away—I did not know his name and address then—on 18th January he came again, and brought me four forms of bills of exchange—he wished me to imitate them as well as I could with type—he selected the type—one form was executed, he corrected the proof and fifty copies of it were printed—the bill forms he brought were left with me—this one is headed "Callao," this other is the one that was executed, and a proof of it is underneath it—I set up another of the bill forms, the one with "Callao" on it, but I only delivered a few proofs to him—he selected six scrolls from my specimen-book, they were procured from the founder's, and he took four of the six away with him—those are the four that were shown to Mr. Straker—he called at various times until nearly the end of February—he showed me some forms of bills in December—I said that they were lithographed—he then asked me if I knew a lithographer in the neighbourhood, and having seen Mr. Thomas Straker's name, of Ivy Lane, I mentioned it—he did not tell me afterwards whether he had been to him—on 28th January, the day he brought the forms of bills, he paid a sovereign on account—I inquired what name I should enter in my book, and he took this small slip of paper, which was lying on my desk, and wrote on it "J. R. Nelson"—I afterwards found it and gave it up—I asked his address, he said he was staying at Brighton—I find endorsed on all these bills (Including the one charged in the indictment) an impression of the German stamp which I cut for George Bidwell—I do not understand German—the stamp on this bill (For 900l. on Blydenstein, dated 9th January) appears to bear exactly the same device in the corner as the one I printed for George Bidwell, with a little difference in the colour, but it is not filled up on one of my forms—the device is identical with that on the bill brought to us to copy the print from.

Cross-examined by George Bidwell. My place of business is not far from Straker's in Ivy Lane—you gave the name of Nelson—Straker says that his customer gave the name of Brooks, and said that he was recommended by me—I cannot say whether it is likely that you would give another name to my near neighbour, I can only state the fact—I first saw you after your arrest when you came into the dock at the Mansion House—the impressions on these bills are so like that even a mistake is imitated if it is an imitation—it does not appear to me to be an imitation at all, but to be an impression from the bills—I set it up, but, not knowing German, I did not know that it was wrong—it was set up from the copy, as near as we could discover, and from type procurable at any printing-office—I have not seen any of the forged bills on forms like the blanks I printed—I have no doubt about the endorsements being from my stamp.

WILLIAM CHESHIRE. I am an engraver, at 42, Paternoster Row—I know George Bidwell—I saw him between December and February—he came to my shop first in December, and gave an order for some lettering of the names of various Continental towns; he wished them done in some fancy kind of lettering, Amsterdam, Lubeck, Bremen, Hamburg, and others—when an order of that kind is given it is usual to have a drawing—one was prepared on that occasion, and inspected by George Bidwell—they were afterwards engraved—he called himself and took the blocks away with him, paying for them at the same time—he did not give any name; we were obliged to call him by some name, and the assistants in the office gave him the name of "Von," owing to the German accent that he had—this book contains impressions from the stamps I cut for him—there are twenty-five names in all here—I have examined this list of bills carefully, and my stamp has been used on some part of these bills.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I can't tell you the date at which all the models were cut—my book does not show in every case when the order was received and executed—they were trivial orders, and were not always booked at the time—the last order was taken on 18th February, and executed immediately—this date, "11th February" in the book, is part of an order—I can't tell you when I received that order.

Cross-examined by George Bidwell. On the bill No. 1, 662 the words I cut are "11th Feb., 1873"—they were engraved by me—also the words "Sub Countryman.," and the word "Secret."—I believe I swore at the Mansion House to having cut those words—I don't think my attention was called to any special words, it was called generally to all the impressions of which that was one—the words are so exactly like those I cut that I have come to the conclusion they must have been taken from the blocks engraved by me—another engraver certainly could do one exactly like it, but I think it would be possible to detect the difference in some little particular or other—I saw you first after your arrest at the Mansion House, down stairs—there were no other prisoners present—I recognised you directly, my only remark was that you looked very ill, which you did at that time—you were different, you had been unshaven for some days, but I recognised you in a moment—your dress was not the same, nor your hat—your personal appearance was the same, your dress and surroundings were different—that was four months after I had seen you at my office—it was quite at the close of the examination at the Mansion House that I was brought as a witness—I read in the papers that the prisoners were arrested, and were to be brought up at the Mansion House, and as soon as I finished dinner I went to see if I could see them—the examination was over, and I saw you down stairs—I had communicated with the police considerably before that, and given a written description—I have not had any conversation with Mr. Challoner on the subject—I did not show him my book of samples—I should have known you if you had been put amongst other persons.

Re-examined. The prisoner George Bidwell was in my office perhaps twice in a week, and perhaps not for a fortnight—altogether, I have seen him half-a-dozen times, probably—the first order was the 9th December, and the last the 18th February—I have not the slightest doubt that he is the man.

JAMES DALTON (Interpreted, being totally deaf). I am an engraver and wood cutter, at 21, Paternoster Row, of the firm of Carter & Dalton—I saw George Bidwell during last November, and on 4th December he called and showed me two pieces of paper with scrolls printed on them—Rayner & Co. "was on one—on 7th December I got an order from him for the words "London and Westminster Bank," and some Dutch lettering—on the 9th he gave me an order for lettering "Hamburg Banking Co."—I should recognise the impression from my stamp if I saw it—this bill was taken from one of my blocks with a piece cut off the end—(This was the bill indicted upon)—they have cut away part of the word "bank," and left only "London & Westminster B."—part of the "A" remains to imitate a full stop—on 17th December I got an order for an acceptance "Messrs. Smith, Payne & Smith"—there was another on the 16th—this is the impression—this is a proof taken from the block before I gave it up to George Bidwell—from time to time he gave me pieces of paper to copy from—the prisoner communicated with me on slips of paper when he came, sometimes with a pencil and sometimes with a pen—these are the original copies given by the prisoner for me to engrave from—they were torn up by the prisoner and thrown on the floor and afterwards found—after this case began, we looked and found those pieces—there is one written in German, "Ich will bald mehr haben"—that is a copy for some of the work done—he told me to read the German letters one by one to prevent a mistake—he wrote in English afterwards "I will have more soon," as I did not understand the German manuscript letters—the prisoner gave me a piece of tracing paper with "Fréres Bruderer" on it; it was done very badly, and I made another tracing of it from the model brought by the prisoner—the order for the Dutch lettering on 7th of December I gave up to a person named Evans to do—I have gone through the list of stamps I executed, and compared them with the bills—the list is correct—I went over it with Mr. Stevenson.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I can fix the date when all these things were done except two.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. The block of "Smith, Payne & Smith" was cut in such a bad way that any schoolboy ought to be able to write it; it ought to have been cut on brass, but being on wood it was difficult to imitate—I can also recognise this one of the "Union Bank" and some of the oval stamps that are on the face of the bills, and also the German lettering—the fact is they ought all to have been out on brass, the general character was so bad—the lettering on bill 1662 might be from one of my stamps, but it does not look like it—I have done a great many like this one, "11th Feb., 1873," for the prisoner—I cut a great many numbers, but they were all separate—the dates and numbers running all through the month—at the Mansion House it was my belief that the other part of the acceptance on the bill 1662, except the words "by us for the" and "Subcountry Manager and Secretary," was cut by me—I cut "December, January, and February" like that which Mr. Cheshire has done, and numbers similar to that.

Re-examined. This is a copy of the order I gave to Mr. Evans.

HENRY GEORGE EVANS. I am a wood engraver, at 4, New Court, Farringdon Street—I work for Mr. Dalton—about 7th of December last he called and brought two slips of paper—this is a proof that I took myself from one of the blocks that I cut—of the two slips of paper he brought, one of them was a tracing in pencil, and the other side was written in black ink—I made a block by his orders, and that is the impression from it—I have examined this list of bills and it is correct.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I received two orders from Mr. Dalton at the same time.

GEORGE EDWARD RUSSELL. I am now at Messrs. Hunt and Roskell's, in Bond Street; in September last year I was in the employ of Messrs. Wyon, engravers, of Regent Street—I know George Bidwell, he came to Wyon's first the latter end of August, he gave me an order for some address cards in the name of "George Bidwell"—the order was passed on by me to Mr. Eaton, the clerk who attended to that department—he afterwards brought a seal to be engraved—he first asked to have the monogram engraved on it, and finally decided to have some arms as well—he requested me to search in our heraldic works, and see if I could find the name of Bidwell; he claimed to be descended from the English family of that name—I traced the name of Bidwell—I found several, and read the description over to him, and he selected one, and instructed me to engrave those arms on the seal, and we were to make a painting on vellum—he gave me two addresses, No. 1, Langham Street, and the address I was to send the engraved seal to was Hotel de 1'Europe, Havre— I afterwards received a letter from him from abroad—I received three letters relating to the matter, also the receipt for the registration of the seal sent to him—the 13th September was the first one this is it; it is signed "George Bidwell." "Grande Hotel de Paris, Trouville. Gentlemen,—I shall be here for some days; you may forward me the seal by mail to this hotel, and oblige. P. S.—Incase you have already sent it to Havre it will reach me all right"—I handed the seal to our workman to be engraved, and the arms were printed as well—this is a part of the seal we engraved; the monogram is on one side and the coat of arms on the other—I don't think any drawing was made—we received another on 17th September, and sent them off to him as requested in that letter—we sent them in a registered letter, and received this letter acknowledging the receipt—(Read: "October 22nd, 1872. Gentlemen,—I should have acknowledged the receipt of the box with seal before, but forgot to do so. Will you please forward to me, Hotel Russia, a dozen sheets of the paper and envelopes, or all if there is a good mode of conveyance; though the most I shall require at present will be a small quantity. I shall call on you on my return in a few weeks.")—He did call on his return—I don't remember the date.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I was not examined at the Mansion House—I was first asked to be a witness last Wednesday.

WILLIAM STRAKER (re- examined). Since I was examined I have discovered amongst the waste-paper a spoiled proof of the mistake I made in spelling the word "Juan"—I produce it—the paper I used is what is called loan paper: it is hand-made; there is no other peculiarity about it—of course, if I engrave a plate my work may be copied.

JONATHAN POPE (City Policeman). On Saturday, 1st March, Hills was given into my custody at the Continental Bank—I told him that he was given into custody on a charge of fraud upon the Bank of Englandhe said, "You have no right to take me without a warrant; where is your warrant?"—I told him it required no warrant, as he was given into custody, and he must accompany me to the police-station, Bow Lane—on the road there, he said "What ever is the matter, you had better take me to Mr. Horton's, in Cannon Street"—I asked him where Mr. Horton's rooms were—he said "At the Cannon Street Hotel; you had better take me there, and he will make all things right"—I told him he must go to the station, and we should communicate with Horton there—I took him to Bow Lane Station and searched him—I found on him this 100l. note, and a cheque for 100: (This was dated 1st March, 1873, drawn by C. J. Hortony payable to self or order. Endorsed "C. J. Horton") I also found on him this case, containing a number of papers, and this pocket-book—I took possession of them at the time, and afterwards handed them to Sergeant Spittle in the same state.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. That was about 11 o'clock in the morning; I believe he was transacting business at the bank at the time—I found him at the counter.

JOHN SPITTLE (City Police Sergeant.) I was at the station on 1st March, shortly after Hills was brought there—some time after, at the Mansion House, I said to him "Mr. Noyes, at the police-station you gave your address as Durrant's Hotel, Manchester Square; that is false, as you have left there these three weeks; the last meal you had there was on the 4th of last month; will you give me your correct address?"—he said "Who are you?"—I said "I belong to the police, now will you give it me?"—he said "No, I have no settled address, I have been stopping at different places!"—I said "Will you say where you slept last night?"—he said "No, after the manner I have been treated; if I had an opportunity I might be able to find Horton"—he was then charged in the name of Noyes, and examined before the Lord Mayor—when I gave my evidence he said the reason he gave the address at Durrant's Hotel was that he was directed to do so by Horton, who told him that he should go back there—he was remanded for a week—I was then requested by his Counsel, Dr. Kenealy, to produce certain papers, the bill-case, and the papers, an agreement and some letters, and the pocket-book I had received from Pope—on Thursday, 6th March, I went to Euston Square Station about 8.30 in the evening—I followed Miss Vernon there—she went away, and in a few minutes returned with a man named Meunier, who was carrying a leathern bag, containing something heavy—I took them both into custody on the charge of the unlawful possession of the bag—I examined the bag; it contained 2, 715l. 10s. in gold—I took them before the Lord Mayor; they were remanded for a week and then discharged, and Miss Vernon was at once examined as a witness—I did not see anything of George Bidwell at the station—on 2nd April I went to Edinburgh, and saw George Bid well there on the 3rd; he was at the police-station, in custody—I addressed him as George Bid well, and told him that I belonged to the police, and also Sergeant Smith, who was with me, that I held a warrant for his apprehension, issued by the Lord Mayor of London, and that I would read it to him, which I did—it was for being concerned with Noyes, Warren, and Macdonnell in feloniously forging and uttering two bills of exchange in February last—he said "Political, anything political; are you sure there is nothing political about it?"—I said "No, I am sure the Lord Mayor of London granted this warrant, upon sworn depositions"—I further told him that he would have to come with Smith and me to London, and we soon after left with him—as we were coming up to London, he said "I suppose the man Noyes in custody is a person I know by the name of Howe; he was introduced to me in that name"—he said he thought so from what he had read in the newspapers—he further asked me what I had done with the luggage I had taken from Nellie—I told him I had given her what she claimed as hers, and still held the rest—he asked me the number of boxes and trunks there—I said I could not remember—I said "Are you a naturalised American—he said "Excuse me, I would rather not answer questions"—I said "Very well"—when he was at the police-station at Edinburgh he spoke like a Continental person; a person accustomed to speak French or Italian, but knew very little English—at the Mansion House he spoke just as he has done to-day—I heard the Inspector ask him his name—he said "I would rather not give my name now; I wish to see my solicitor"—he gave his address, "Cumberland Street, Edinburgh," but he said he did not know the number—I produce a copy of the Daily Telegraph containing Hill's advertisement about the situation; it appeared in the paper from 6th to 11th January.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I only produce one newspaper, but the advertisement was inserted six times—(Read: "A gentleman of active business habits seeks a situation of trustor partnership; address particulars, Edwin Noyes, Durrant's Hotel, Manchester Square.")—I have seen and produce the letters received at the hotel in answer to that advertisement—I have read them—I have no doubt they are letters in answer to that advertisement.

MR. POLAND put in the papers found upon Hills, the slip of paper having on it, "Messrs. J. and S. K. S. & Co., drawn by B. B. & Co., 6541 1/2;" a number of blank credit-slips of the Continental Bank, some blank envelopes addressed to E. Noyes, Esq., Terminus Hotel, L. B.; a stock and share list; an agreement dated 11th January, 1873, between C. J. Horton and Edwin Noyes, by which Noyes was, upon payment of 300l., to be engaged as clerk and manager to Horton, at a salary of 150l. a year; a receipt from Horton for the 300l.; an envelope of Jay Cooke, McCulloch & Co., with "C. J. Horton" upon it; a memorandum "Can supply 2, 200 thal.; shall we get them;" and a number of entries in the pocket-book.

ANN LAVEROOK. I am the wife of William Laverock, of 22, Cumberland Street, Edinburgh—I occasionally let lodgings—on 11th March last, George Bidwell called and took a room of me; a sitting-room fronting the street—he gave the name of Couton—he brought with him a portmanteau—he said he had come from Rotterdam—he said he had been sea-sick in crossing—he asked if I had any French or German lodgers—I asked if he was a French gentleman—he said no, his parentage was French—he stayed with me till 2nd April.

DAVID FERGUSON. I am a detective officer of the Edinburgh police—on Wednesday, 2nd April, in consequence of instructions, I went to Mrs. Laverock's and searched the front parlour—I found a number of articles of jewellery and some letters, which I took to the Police Court and handed over—I saw George Bidwell that day at the office of Gibson, Craig, & Co.—I searched him, and found on him a quantity of jewellery, diamonds, and money—at his lodging I found this letter, containing a slip of paper. (This was addressed, "Mr. Joseph B. Bidwell, attorney, &c., South Bend, Ind., U. S. A. "There is a letter addressed to my wife's maiden name in full at your post-office; get and open") I have not got the telegraphic slip; I took it to the Post Office authorities, and got a telegram instead of it.

MICHAEL HAYDON (City Police Sergeant). I went out to Havannah and saw Austin Bidwell there on 13th April; he was given into the custody of myself and Sergeant Green—I found on him six American bonds of 1,000 dollars each, two for 500, one for 100, 18l. in gold, two 5-franc gold pieces, three diamond studs, a pair of gold and amethyst sleeve links, a gold watch, a gold chain, and a seal—before I went out to Havannah, I searched Macdonnell's luggage, and amongst it found this paper—(Read: "To George Macdonnell, Esq., Edwards' Hotel, Maddox Street, Hanover Square, London. Sunday, 9th, 1872. My dear George,—Ada arrived only at 3 o'clock. I could not get off last night, but leave at 8 to-night 'I anticipate a beautiful time; only wish that you, too, and some other fair one was along. Accept my thanks for your special kindness in this matter. Recd, your teleg. about the balance, I am of course delighted. I do long to soon see you again, as I scarcely know of a thing that would delight me more. I write in great haste, and if I do not write again believe me to be always yours, affectionately and truly, Austin.")

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I did not find these things myself in the possession of Austin Bidwell—I did not see them in his possession at all; I got them from the acting Vice-Consul, Mr. Crawford—they were at the Vice-Consulate until they were given to me on 8th May—Austin Bidwell was taken into custody, I think, on the 13th or 14th February—I don't think Mr. Crawford is here.

Re-examined. These things were handed over with Austin Bidwell to me to bring to this country—I showed them to Austin Bidwell the same day I received them, and he said they were quite correct.

SAMUEL WILSON ROBINSON. I live in the neighbourhood of Glasgow— last May I took a voyage to South America on board the Lusitania—Austin Bidwell, Macdonnell, and George Bid well were passengers—I knew Austin Bidwell as Henry Amadown, Macdonnell as Gregory Morrison, and George Bidwell as Gilmore—before we arrived at Rio, it was determined to present a letter of thanks to the captain for his conduct during the voyage—George Bidwell wrote it—this is it—I saw him write it.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. After the voyage was over, Austin Bidwell gave me his card with "Biron Bidwell" on it—I was not examined at the Mansion House—I gave my evidence to the prosecution on the Tuesday before this case commenced—they came to me at Patrick—they showed me a photograph—it was not a policeman, it was Mr. McKenzie, a clerk to Gibson, Craig, & Co., of Edinburgh.

Re-examined. The voyage took about eighteen or twenty days; it was from Liverpool—I saw the prisoners every day while they were on board, and I saw them after we left Rio and came back again—I have not the least doubt they are the three persons who were my fellow-passengers.

CHARLES PATEY. I am a clerk in the Telegraph Department of the Post Office—I produce some original telegrams; I got them from the head office.

ANNA SHIMECH. I was formerly servant at the Rheinisher Kaiser, at Vienna—I know Macdonnell and George Bidwell—I saw them in October last—Maodonnell then appeared to be very ill, and used crutches.

CHARLES CHABOT. I am a lithographer, and have made handwriting my study—I have examined all these documents alleged to be in the writing of Austin Bidwell—and the signature books of the Bank of England, Western Branch, and of the Continental Bank; also the signature at the tailors, Messrs Green, also a letter signed "Daisy;" the endorsement "F. A. Warren" on this bill (The one charged in the indictment) is in the same writing as the signature "F. A. Warren" on the documents just produced—these three bills contained in the letter of 1st January are in the same writing, and they are endorsed "F. A. Warren"—the signature of the letter enclosing them I believe to be in his writing—I have no doubt that the whole of the letters (Found in Audin Bidwell's trunk) are in Austin Bidwell's writing—this letter and envelope (dated 9th January) is in Austin Bidwell's writing; also the signature to all these eleven cheques on the Bank of England; also both of these letters (produced)—I have seen this letter written on a round robin, and these insurance accounts, the figures in the insurance accounts are all I know of—I have examined Macdonnell's signature to this document dated 20th February—I have formed a judgment upon it, and I have no doubt whatever that the body of the bill which is the subject of this indictment is Macdonnell's writing—both the first and the second bills, and the signature "H. C. Streeter" which appears in both documents, in fact the whole of the front of the bill and the signature, and I have no doubt whatever that the endorsement is Austin Bidwell's writing—these eight other bills, alleged to be forged, are in the same writing, Macdonnell's, both the signatures and the bodies—Streeter is supposed to be the drawer of all of them, and the endorsement is Macdonnell's writing—this letter, dated "Londres, 19th November, 1872," purports to be signed by Warren, but I do not recognise it and give no opinion about it—this bill, dated 19th November, 1872, is in Macdonnell's writing; I say nothingabout the signature—I have seen all these letters produced by Helen Vernon, but they do not all contain the admitted writing of George Bidwell—the endorsement "H. S. Spaulding" to this bill (produced) is in George Bidwell's writing, without a doubt, and both these bills (produced) and the signatures are in George Bidwell's writing—these letters, beginning on 24th January, down to 27th February, purporting to come from Birmingham, and signed "F. A. Warren," purporting to contain bills of exchange, and giving lists of bills of exchange to be discounted, are in George Bidwell's writing, signatures and all, except the letter signed by Colonel Francis, and dated Burlington Gardens—the bodies of these cheques on the Bank of England, Western Branch, are in George Bidwell's writing, and the signature in Austin Bidwell's writing—the endorsements are for the most part Macdonnell's—these three letters are without any doubt George Bidwell's writing (One of these was the letter about the trunk), all except the note at the foot, I do not know whose writing that is—these American letters are all in George Bidwell's writing—this letter beginning "Dear Brother Johnny," is in Noyes Hill's writing, without any doubt—and the filling up of the bodies of the cheques on the Continental Bank is Hills, without any doubt whatever—this telegram from Spaulding to Edwin Hills, New York, December 2nd, 1872, is undoubtedly in George Bidwell's writing—(Read: "Come Wednesday steamer without fail Answer.")—The next is from Macdonnell to E. N. Hills, St. Denis Hotel, New York, August 1st, 1872: "Send letters back, have written answer."—This telegram from George to Mrs. Le Grand, Brooklyn, is in Macdonnell's writing—this telegram, "Harry to Bid well," on 30th January, is Macdonnell's writing—(Read: "West Strand, January 30th, 1873. From Harry to Bidwell, Hotel Victoria, Weisbaden. Buy immediately several small London sight in Frankfort. Mac's address, Edward's Hotel, Maddox Street; name of sender, H. Bedford, 26, Grosvenor Square."—that is in Macdonnell's handwriting—on 31st January there is one from Harry to Aldrich, Hotel Hollande, Frankfort-on-Main—that is also in Macdonnell's handwriting: "Telegraph to day, Weisbaden. Enquire for letters at Lord Warden, Dover, Sunday. Send letter for Daisy; Answer."—I have one of 28th February in George Bidwell's handwriting:—From Bidwell to Biron Bidwell, Poste Restante, Havannah."—the address, "Rev. Chas. Hills, Springfield, &c," to the roll of bills is in Noyes' handwriting.

Cross-examined by MR. MCINTYRE. I have not had the assistance of any other expert in handwriting in examining these documents—I never had the assistance of another expert in my life—Mr. Netherclift never assisted me in his life—when I have been called to prove the handwriting of a person he has not, as a rule, been called on the other side to prove it is not—that is very seldom indeed the case, and only in difficult cases, I mean in the matter of a mere signature, when perhaps it will be a mere matter of opinion—I can't say that I have ever seen these persons write, I base my judgment upon having examined certain documents which have been proved by the witnesses to be in the handwriting of Austin Bid well—I have examined the admitted handwriting till I have become fully acquainted with it, and then I compare that with the handwriting in dispute—I saw the signature in the signature book and a number of other signatures—the whole of this letter of 28th December is undoubtedly in Austin Bidwell's handwriting—the body of the letter of 21st January, addressed to Colonel Francis, is in George Bidwell's writing, without doubt—the signature is Austin's—it is very possible that it was written with the same ink—I can't say that it was not—I should say it had been written afterwards, and blotted some little time after—it is my opinion it was nearly dry when it was blotted, it may have been written tea minutes after or immediately afterwards—it might be written by a fresh dip of ink, and fifty other things might be—the signature is quite in the right place, where you would expect it to be if the man had written the whole of the letter, the words "Yours very truly" rise one beyond the other, but the signature, "F. A. Warren," is quite straight, so it does not look like the same hand—I should Bay the signature was written with rather a free hand—I say that the bodies of these cheques are in the handwriting of George Bidwell, and the signature is Austin's—they are very excellent signatures, written in a manner so as to be sure not to be returned, and all written at one sitting, in my opinion—they would infallibly be received at the Bank, I should say—signatures might be traced so that the forms of the letters would be the same, but the tracing would have the appearance of the tracing at the back of some of the forged bills—a lame, crawling line—I don't know in whose writing the initials F. A. W. is, to the cheques altered from order to bearer—in my opinion they are not Austin Bidwell's—there is only the word "Bear" on the cheque of 27th February—I don't know whose writing that is, nor the initials, but I don't think they are Austin's—there is another cheque on the 27th, with the letter "B" and part of the letter "E," and the final "er"—I believe those letters are in George Bidwell's writing; it seems to me they are written by the same person who wrote the body of the cheque, but trifles like these I have put on one side—I don't know in whose writing the two names "C. J. Horton" and "C. J. Heorton" are—I don't recognise Austin Bidwell's hand in them; who wrote them I can't tell—the endorsements "F. A. Warren" on some of the bills are written by Austin, and some are not—I have seen 140 bills; most of them, if not all, have the signatures of Warren on the back—some of them I believe to be in Austin's writing, and in a large majority I can't recognise the signatures—I can't tell you how many of the signatures are his in my opinion—I say that Streeter's bill, the subject of this indictment, is certainly not a tracing—it is a very fair signature, a signature that would be sure to be honoured—the signatures "Horton" to the cheques on the Continental Bank have been all written at one time, and are the careful signatures of Austin—comparing them with the signatures on the credit-notes and other signatures, I say they are written by the same person—in this respect they are not like them; one is a very careful signature and the other is a careless signature—I have compared them with the more careful signatures—I am prepared to say that in my opinion the signatures to the cheques are in the writing of Austin; to the best of my belief they are—I can't distinguish them from his genuine signatures; there is only this difference, they seem to be written with particular care—they are particularly good signatures, so far that they have given me a great deal of trouble—if you select these two, there is the very worst signature of "Horton" and one of the very best—if they had been put before me to compare, I should hesitate to give an opinion, and say they were not written by one person—here are two signatures that are written by one person; that is credit-slip "Austin Bidwell," 24, and credit "Austin Bidwell," 30—if those signatures had been put before me, and I were asked whether they were written by one and the same person (mind, I know that they are), I should say I would give no opinion—if I were pressed, I should say I have come to no opinion—I can't give an opinion unless I form one—I only give opinions when I feel convinced, and that would be a case in which I would not say they were in the handwriting of the same person, although they are—I should not be able to form a judgment.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. In a case in the Probate Court I once swore that the signature of a testatrix was a forgery, and the jury found afterwards that it was a genuine signature, but the Judge certified that there were grounds for a new trial, and it is not settled—I have never admitted that it was not a forgery—I don't remember such a thing in my life; you are asking me whether I have made a mistake, and I ask you by what I am to judge; you tell me a jury found a verdict against me; I am telling you that the case has to be tried again, and further when juries have found verdicts against me and the case has been tried again, their verdict has always been reversed—there have not been many cases—I do not know where Mr. Netherclift is; he has differed from me in opinion, perhaps, in one case in sixty or seventy in which we have been employed—I say that this document is in Noyes' writing, from the peculiar termination of the letter "a," and from the Greek form of the letter "C" in "Charles" and in "Massachusetts"—I was a long time coming to that conclusion, because I am cautious, and had not seen it for some time—I could find letters there to correspond with Macdonnell's writing, but not in a satisfactory manner; not in a manner to induce me to form an opinion—I have not compared it with Macdonnell's writing.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. The letter was not placed in my hands one evening on the arrival of Mr. Peter Williams from New York, but I was examined at the Mansion House next day—I speak to George Bidwell's writing to all these letters positively—there are one or two specialities in it, such as the spelling of the word telegram with two "1's," which is the way George Bidwell spells it, but it was from the general character that I spoke to it; I had not sufficient time to look into it—I had had much longer than a quarter of an hour—I took them home with me—I was positive after I had seen the letters—I must have seen them more than half-an-hour at Mr. Freshfield's before I took them away—I think I was two or three hours in his office on this business and going to the Bank of England, and I think I am speaking within compass when I say I saw it for three-quarters of an hour—I am speaking of the letter from New York and one letter of Noyes Hills'—some of these letters are in George Bidwell's writing, and there are two from Edinburgh—I had seen the Birmingham letters as long ago as 21st March, and for three weeks at a time—no one would suppose that the signature and the bodies are in the same writing; one is signed by Austin Bidwell, and the other is not, if I mistake not.

Re-examined. I have been engaged in these studies eighteen or twenty years, and have been examined on a great many trials.

JOSEPH BAKER (re-examined). I have gone through the list of the bonds, and the payments made in respect of them—it accurately shows the bonds and the mode in which they were paid for.

CHARLES ANTHONY PYE. I am a cashier in the Bank of England, Western Branch—on 17th January, 1873, I paid a cheque of Warren's for 1, 500l. over the counter; I gave in payment one 500l. note, No. 38, 420, March 16th, 1872, and ten 100l. notes, dated 25th March, 1872, numbered 70, 121 to 70, 127, 70, 129, and 70, 130.

PETER STEIN MA YR. I am a waiter at the City Terminus Hotel, Cannon Street Station—I know Hills, he used room No. 8 there from 30th January to 28th February, in the name of Horton; it was a private sitting-room —he used to come there three or four times a week for about half an hour—the room was never formally given up—I heard that he had been taken in custody—there were no business books there or any signs of business.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. The room was engaged at the offices in the name of Horton, I don't know who by—Mr. Spence is the proprietor of the hotel, he is not here— "Mr. Gearing is the clerk—I do not know with whom the engagement was made—I have seen Noyes in the room, and I have seen visitors there—I supposed that his name was Horton, I knew him by that name—letters did not come, to my knowledge, addressed to Noyes—I have never seen anybody else who represented himself as Horton—I have seen gentlemen go into the room, but he never was in the room more than half an hour at a time—when I speak of Horton I mean the prisoner Noyes—he has engaged a messenger himself once or twice, but not from the hotel—I only know by the entry in the books for what period the room was engaged—the entry was not made by me, the book is not here. (The documents previously put in were read, viz., a letter of credit for 1,000l. on Baring Brothers, in favour of W, Nixon, sent to New York and numbered 13,083, attached to which was a bill for 1,0001. at thirty days' sight; also letters from George Macdonnell at Vienna, dated October 7th, 1872, and from Austin Bidwell, Mor ley's Hotel, London. November 14th, 1872, and December 10th, 1872, to Messrs Drexel, Harjes, & Co., of Paris, requesting them to forward any letters, and enclosing money for the postage; also Messrs, Drexel's replies of 22nd November and 16th December, 1872, stating that they had forwarded letters to Frankfort-on-the-Main, Amsterdam, and to Morley's Hotel; also the following letters:—London, Jan. 29, 1873. Dear Bro. Johnnie,—I have this day registered a letter to you, via John W. Nixon, of Naval Office Custom House, New York City, containing 1,000l. sterling, which you will collect to the best advantage. The bankers will charge from 1l. 8 to 1/4 per cent, for collection. There is a premium on London Exchange. Before collecting it, post yourself as to Exchange so that they will not charge you exorbitant rates. On it you will get two premiums London Exchange and premium on gold in greenbacks. I think it will amount to about 5, 500 dollars. I can't tell exactly, but do the best you can. After you collect it, carry 1, 400 over to Charles to pay Smith 750, and also he will pay that bond of 600, that father owes Henry Kennedy for that woodland. The bond is endorsed by John Maclean, so you will see that Kennedy will sicken of the prospect of getting a hold of our homestead. The bond in Pratt Street let remain until my return. Take 250 dollars yourself to buy your wife a 150 dollar sewing machine, a suit of nice clothes for yourself, cotton cloth out of which Leiz. will make for herself and mother under garments, &c, as a present from me. Don't let Cos Jul or anyone know but that you bought them yourself. Also deduct your and Leiz. expenses to go to Springfield and out home. Also hand Robert Chapman 50 dollars if he should want it (I offered to lend him it). Take a receipt for it to pay to father when he can if I am not at home. The ballance you may place to my account in the First National Bank, Hartford, subject to be drawn by Leiz. in case of death to me or accident or long absence of six months. Make it draw interest. If they will not give interest put it into the Etna Bank. Hall will introduce you. Say nothing to no one as to my whereabout, not even Chas. I am trying to persuade a friend of mine, an English gentleman to go to America and enter business. If I succeed, it will perhaps throw us together. It is not certain when I shall return to America. These Englishmen are such sticklers for country, it is hard to start them. I confess that I am beginning to like to stay in Europe. More anon next time. Yours as eve ED "Call at Register Letter Department for it" "Monday, p. m. 5. My dear M.,—Yours of yesternoon came to hand just now. I am more sorry than I can tell to hear that you are suffering so much. Of course you know that you have my ardent sympathies and best wishes for a speedy restoration to your heretofore blooming health. * * * G. has just telegraphed you if we shall not wait until you are completely restored, and in answering it I trust that you will not be governed by any thought that we want you to go on at once; far from it; the first consideration is your health, and if necessary we will postpone business until Christmas, and if you require rest for 10 days or more, for heaven's sake take it, it might be highly dangerous for you to stir about. Then we have a good capital, and when ready, can largely increase it on short order. Above all things if your health requires it let us wait, for business cannot be injured by delay, it is only a matter of resting for that time. If we delay, I probably will go to Baden-Baden for five or six days. I can pass the time very well. I am happy to say that my pecker and finger in three or four days more will be entirely well. Hoping you may in a few days be able to say the same thing, I remain, yours truly, "A."—Dear M.,—You will find a letter, addressed to the name of your friend of C. Town, only with the first name of my Mick. Bro. for a middle name, at N. Y. P. O. "Edinburgh, March 11. Dear M.,—Your Irish friends were too warm for me, but I avoided their attentions by coming over here, and shall remain quietly here until I hear from you. I had less money than I supposed, and have only, say 71. on hand, but have 400l. in valuables, but do not care to offer anything at present. You better send me 100l. in English or Francks bank notes, not by registered letter, dividing it into three sums, one letter here, one to Copenhagen, one to Barcelona, all directed same name as on this. Do not tellegraph. It may be some time before I reach home. Will write often, directed same name as this, but to Brevoort."—(This was not signed, but the envelope bore a portion of George Bidwelts seal) "Edinburgh, 13th March. Dear M.,—I think you need have no more anxiety on my account, as I feel quite sure of keeping my health intact. I send you a batch of news herewith, which I know will surprise, if not please you, and as I am in rect. of the papers, will keep you posted. I am very quietly and comfortably situated here, and shall remain for some days in statu quo. In case you get these things all 0. K. (meaning all correct) you had better lay mine and Frére's away, as in case I conclude to dispose of some valuables I have about me, I shall make a dive for home in one or two weeks longer; of course I have no news of poor Nell, but think she will do well for herself, and can't imagine on what grounds they hold on. Of course it was foolish for me to leave L., but my anxiety to attend to those matters there overcame other reasons. Your friend has had a series of the most extraordinary adventures since you saw him, a hell's chase, and no mistake. His nerve has stood him through two taps on shoulder, and four encounters. He has been a Fenian, a Priest, a Professor, a Russian, who could speak only' veree leetle engles, mais un peu de Frangais et Allemand, 'a deaf and dumb man with a slate and pencil—all in the space of a week." (This enclosed newspaper slips containing a report of the examinations of Noyes at the Mansion House.) "5th March. I forgot to mention that the Nos. of those 50 are advertised, which You bought, so you can act accordingly. This is the three I sent to this address. I think I shall remain quiet until I hear from or see someone. It may be best to send someone over to get Nelly out of the way. Let someone go and tell her I have sent for her to come over to N. Y. She will come at once. My baggage seems to be all gone up. They can get track of her at 11, Duke's Road, Euston Road, St. Pancras Church. You may also write to Mr. Anthony, 21, Enfield Road; also same name here, directed Post Office, Pitt Street. You may mail me money, but send no one to me, as I will trust no one except my brothers. Don't on any account use the telegraph."—To Mr. Alfred J. Watson, Brevoort House, Fifth Avenue, New York. Edinburgh, 18th March. Dear M.,—It made me nearly sick to read what I enclose, and as to the photos I can't understand it at all. I shall try to get hold of Nelly, although I may incur some risk by doing so; yet I shall be most cautious in my movements. I am fairly stuck for want of money, and cannot put up anything at present, so I shall lie quiet here for a few days and then go to London, as I have a letter from the lady with whom E. and I lodged last spring, and she has secured me rooms at a neighbour's opposite her house. I have yet over 5l. It is all right as long as I keep inland, but the moment I touch the borders there is the devil to pay. I run through an awful gauntlet last week. Of course I should not have got Nell and myself into this dam stew but for my anxiety to get over there to attend to matters, and who would have dreamed they would take hold of her that way. There was a job put up from H——g's and I had a hard rub at Cx. (meaning Charing Cross.) I look at the Personals in Times every day, and in case anyone comes over and does not hit me, a properly-worded Personal will do it. I prefer letters with small sums, enclosed to A—y, in London (last spring lodging), also here, as directed in my last. Also to same name. This is addressed at General P. O. here. This is my fourth. I am delaying, as every day changes me. Of course it is impossible to say what move, or when I shall make one, but my present opinion is that I shall be in London when this reaches you. The telegraph, and I suspect the post also, is an open book for these parties. I suppose they have procured special permit You might mail some letters to General P. O., London. I forgot to tell you that I wrote 71 B——y about the thing sent, and signed "C. M.," as his brother, telling him to store until my brother the Maj. came or sent, and that my reason for writing was that I was not sure that the agt. who attended to it had written about it. You must keep a list of letters you send, as they may not reach me. You must have 50,000 dollars ready to use for bail, if needed." (Printed advertisementt enclosed cut from the "Times:" "Further caution. Bankers, Brokers, and others, are hereby cautioned against accepting, receiving, negotiating, or otherwise dealing with all or any of the undermentioned securities of the U. S., the same having been obtained by means of forgery. "The numbes werer then given, and a request followed that any information might be given to Inspector Bailey, Police Station, Old Jewry. The letter of 18th March cotained a cut out advertisement offering 500l. reward for the arrest of the two Bid-wills and Macdonnell, and a newspaper slip containing the examination of Helen Vernon and Ellen Franklin at tlie Mansion House; also a letter dated April 14th, 1872, to the proprietor, Brevoort House, April 14th, 1873, signed "G. C. Brownell, Post Office, South Bend, Indiana, "requesting letters to be forwarded, and enclosing 25c. for postage; also a letter from Brownell to Joseph Bidwell, dated South Bend, April 16, 1872, requesting him to receive a package of letters which would come from New York, and keep it till called for. The whole of the bonds were also put in.)

ALBERT GEARING. I am the proprietor of the London Bridge Terminus Hotel.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. I was examined before the Lord Mayor—Mr. C. J. Horton engaged the room; Austin Bidwell is the person—he said that he might require it for two or three days, or possibly for weeks till he got suitable accommodation in the City—I believe it was on 11th January; I know that from my books—I believe letters came for him; I saw him twice looking on the hall table for letters—he did not say that he would engage a clerk; he said that his clerk would come daily; his clerk did come on the next day, I believe—I can't say the exact day the clerk came—I gave directions that if anybody called he was to be shown into No. 6 room—someone, who represented himself as the clerk, called; that was the prisoner Hills—he attended several times, but I cannot say whether he came daily.

Re-examined. The room taken was a private sitting-room; I charged 5s. a day for it—I saw no business going on or any books; I did not enter the room—I saw the person who engaged the room two or three times between his engaging it and 21st February; but I won't say whether I saw him in February.

MR. METCALFE submitted that there was no case to go to the Jury against Macdonnell. The 33 and 34 Vic., c. 52, sec. 19, provides that: "Wherein pursuance of any arrangement with a foreign State, any person accused or convicted of any crime, which, if committed in England, would be one of the crimes described in the first schedule to this Act, is surrendered by that foreign State, such person shall not until he has been restored or had an opportunity of returning to such foreign State, be triable or tried for any offence committed prior to the surrender in any part of Her Majesty's dominions other than such said crimes as may be proved by the facts on which the surrender is grounded," and it was therefore necessary to prove that he was now being tried for the same offence as that for which his extradition from America was obtained.

MR. GIFFARD contended that a special plea to the jurisdiction ought to have been put in before the plea of Not Guilty, and that there was proof of the present offence being committed by Macdonnell before he left this country.

THE COURT considered that unless MR. METCALFE could show that Macdonnell was upon his trial for a different offence to that upon which his surrender was obtained, he was not in a position to raise this objection. MR. METCALFE and MR. BESLEY declining to address the Jury on behalf of Macdonnell and George Bidwell, those prisoners themselves addressed the Jury as follows:—Macdonnell. The statement I have to make to you, Gentlemen of the Jury, was alluded to towards the end of Mr. Giffard's discourse and from what he said I presume he has been informed or conceived some idea himself as to what it was my intention to say. He tells you that any statement which I can make to you is not evidence, and can be received by you only with very great caution; I do not attempt to deny that; but, nevertheless, I think that my statement will be so supported by the testimony which the prosecution has elicited that it will merit at least a very careful consideration at your hands. I can easily conceive that in my case it will be very difficult indeed to make any defence whatever; but, as I believe that no person is in a position to give so accurate and so faithful an account of this whole business as I am, I propose to show to you that in the case of one prisoner at least, if I cannot show it by direct evidence, it is certainly worthy of considerable attention—I mean my proposition which refers to the probability of his entire innocence in the actual fraud. My only reason for making this statement is that the truth may be known in regard to him, for I am perfectly well aware that every word I am saying to you now cuts from under my feet any hope that I might have entertained for myself. The idea of the prosecution, which they have endeavoured to enforce on your convictions, is that the original intention with which Austin Bid well, George Bidwell, and myself came over to this country was to perpetrate this fraud on the Bank of England. I think if that idea could be entertained, it would argue for us a knowledge and a prescience something more than men of ordinary ability and attainments could pretend to. It would suppose that we were perfectly acquainted with the mode of doing business in England, that we knew some person or other who had an account with the Bank of England, that we could by some well-devised plan get sufficiently into the confidence of that person to obtain from him an introduction to the Bank of England, and that all the other minor details, which have been explained so fully in the course of this investigation, would all work together for our benefit, would all turn out precisely as we desired, and that, in fact, nothing at all would interfere to prevent the carrying out of the fraud. When we first came to England it was certainly with no such intention. Mr. Green, of Savile Row, has told you that the opening of the account with the Western Branch of the Bank of England was an entire accident, and so it was. That was done on the 4th of May, and on the 28th of May we three left England. We left England without the slightest intention of returning. We were to have gone to South America by Rio as far as San Francisco, and thence back to Rio. Circumstances occurred in Rio to induce us to change our minds, and we came back. There is no doubt at all the intention was to close the account with the Bank of England, because it was of no use. But when we came back to England it was of considerable use and advantage to us to cash any documents that might come in our possession. We went from England to the Continent, and our intention while on the Continent was to do certain business between Vienna and Frankfort-on-the-Main. Circumstances then arose while we were at Vienna to prevent that business. In the meantime I was taken very seriously ill, and returned to England for the benefit of medical advice. While on my way to England I arrived at Amsterdam, and there I purchased from a banker named Moses Ezekiel a bill upon London. The prosecution has found out, apparently, every circumstance connected with this case, and have, no doubt, found out that. I also had another bill, drawn by Baron Schey of Vienna on London, and that bill I cashed myself. I went to Waring with it, and I saw the manner of doing business, which differed entirely from the manner in which it is transacted in America; the bill from Moses Ezekiel was drawn on the London and Westminster Bank, and was negotiated for me at the Alexandra Hotel. As soon as I saw how business was transacted, I sent a telegram from the station next adjoining the Alexandra Hotel to a person in Holland, and I stated in that telegram that I had made a great discovery. That telegram, I daresay, was also found, but, as it would tend to show that fraud possibly could not have been contemplated so early as the prosecution claim, it has not been brought forward. That was the first moment at which anything of the kind entered my mind. In America, when bills are presented at a bank for discount, when acceptances are presented, it is the custom to send the acceptances round to the persons accepting to be what is technically called "initialed," in order that their validity and genuineness may be certified. I found that was not the case here, and the result of that discovery is that I am standing before you to-day. I went over to Amsterdam after that, and there telegraphed to another person to join me at once. He met me in Amsterdam, and we came to London, where we were afterwards joined by George Bidwell. Mr. Pinto, from Amsterdam, has told you that George Bidwell purchased bills drawn from Amsterdam upon Hamburg, which bills a day or two afterwards were sold back again, and others, drawn upon London, purchased with the proceeds. That was done in pursuance of my directions, and the bills so obtained were afterwards discounted by F. A. Warren. The matter went on in that way for some time until the 11th or 12th November. Austin Bidwell went over to Paris to buy the bill on Messrs. Rothschild which has been so much commented upon, that for 4, 500l. During his voyage or journey to Paris he met with a very severe railroad accident, in which one man certainly was killed outright, and I think two or three more, and Austin Bidwell had probably as narrow an escape from instant death and being smashed to pieces as any man ever had. On arriving in London he was in such a condition that it was almost impossible for him to move. He was helped from the station to the hotel where I was then stopping, and visited by a physician (Dr. Coulson), who told him he was in very great danger of being paralyzed for life, that his spine was affected. On the 17th of January, when Austin Bidwell took that bill to the Bank, I went with him as far as the door, and afterwards helped him back to my quarters. I think on the following day Dr. Coulson saw him, and Austin Bidwell then told him it was his intention to leave England immediately. The doctor replied that if he intended to travel he must do so at once, or he might not be able to do so at all. The evidence goes to show that up to this time every preparation had beea made for the contemplated fraud. The 18th of January was a Saturday, and after the doctor's interview with Austin Bidwell, who was then in my room, he told me that it was his intention to utterly withdraw from anything connected with this or any other similar matter. You can easily conceive that up to this time a great deal of money had been thrown away in continually transferring and re-transferring the papers. The idea of losing that money and having no return for it at all did not please me very much; but as Austin Bidwell said he would leave, was determined to leave, and did leave, I could only let him go, and he went But for all that, I thought that I would not make myself a victim; at all events I should carry it on, and in that determination I was joined by another person, who will tell you the same thing. On Dr. Coulson's advice Austin Bidwell decided to travel immediately, and he left with me two cheques—one drawn upon the Western Branch of the Bank of England and the other on Hartland and Co.—to obtain the balance of his account from both banks and invest the proceeds in United States bonds, which were to be forwarded to him in Paris. These cheques were in the first place drawn for the full amount. I thought it very likely that he might be induced to change his mind, and I had other cheques prepared, leaving a small balance on both accounts. These two cheques were cashed, and the proceeds left in my hands. The first forged bill as sent down to Birmingham on the 21st of January. Mr. Chabot has told you that it is his opinion that the endorsement "F. A. Warren" on the bills was in the handwriting of Warren. It was not. No one knows that better than I do, for I know all about it My hand was the one that put those endorsements on. Mr. Chabot also says the cheques by which the moneys were drawn from the two banks were in Austin Bid well's handwriting, and were all signed at one sitting. Several of them were signed at one sitting, I quite agree with Mr. Chabot, but not by Austin Bid well. I can refer you in particular to the cheque which went to the Western Branch of the Bank of England, in which the name of Horton was misspelt. It is admitted that Austin Bid well was then on the way to Havaunah. Mr. Chabot does not state positively that these cheques were signed by Horton; the Continental Bank was perfectly well satisfied that they were sjgned by Horton, and I think the expert in that bank was quite as able to judge as Mr. Chabot whether the signatures were genuine. Now, then, I come to the accident on the Northern Railroad of France. When Austin Bidwell arrived at my quarters in England his first statement to me was this: "Mac, I have had a most frightful escape from instant death, to be an escape, as perhaps any man has ever experienced. "He went on to elaborate his sentiments during the accident, and wound up by saying that such was the deep impression made on his mind iu those few moments of peril that he should certainly have nothing to do with anything not only affecting his personal convenience and his liberty and happiness, as far as that goes, but also place in jeopardy, according to the view from which he looked at it then, his eternal happiness. I think, Gentlemen of the Jury, that this is not at all a far-fetched statement, and is probably one that will commend itself to your attention as being worthy of a great deal of consideration—namely, that a man of his age could not have so absolutely and entirely forgotten the sentiments implanted in him in youth as to be indifferent to such a warning. For myself, I am willing to confess that, probably from not having gone through that experience myself, I gave the matter but little attention, in fact, I laughed at it and laughed at him; but all I could say could not change his mind, and on the following Monday he left England. Now, as to the money which remained in his hands, he asked me to invest it for him in American bonds, about 1,000l. In the meantime the first batch of forged bills had been presented, and part of the proceeds invested in United States bonds, through the medium of Messrs. Jay Cooke & Co. When I went to Paris on the 28th I took those bonds with me. I met Austin there, to whom, by the way, a night or two before, I had sent 10,000 dollars, and when I went over I took the balance to him. Those 10,000 dollars he deposited for safe keeping with the American Agency. I went with him there to take them out, and while there I told him I had certain moneys that I was about to give him as soon as I could settle my affairs in London. It was useless to have money entirely idle, and I myself requested him to buy that very bill which has not been used but has been presented in evidence here. I wanted him to buy it on the ground of having already had some sort of acquaintance with these people, and he could do it better than I could. At that time I am bound to state that he had the most entire confidence that what I told him was true and exactly as I represented it to him, and, accordingly, he bought the bill In the course of our operations on the Continent between Vienna and Frankfort last autumn, there was a good amount of money left uncollected, and Austin's visit to Frankfort primarily was to collect that money. When he left Paris with the intention of going to Frankfort, I myself requested him to sell those bonds, without telling him that it was part of any fraud, for of a fraud at that time he had no conception whatever. I requested him to sell those bonds, and the balance that was due by him to me on a settlement I asked him to forward either by bill on London or New York. The balance was between 500l. or 600l., and the manner in which he remitted that sum to me was in a bill from Baron Bethman for 500l. drawn on the Russian Bank of Foreign Trade. When I returned to London I sent him a telegram, which has been produced here, asking him to buy certain small sighted bills; and I think, if all the papers in my trunk had been examined, one letter would have been found in which he stated he did not know to what I referred. When Austin Bidwell left England the evidence shows pretty clearly that he left everything in confusion as far as this business is concerned, and in a state of unreadiness. When the first bills were sent in to the bank the intention only was to recoup the loss on the money transactions and then clear out. But when the facility with which they were received and discounted was considered, it was determined to carry the thing further, and in order to do so it was necessary to get up bills, printing done, and stamps made, and there was very little time to do it in; it had to be in a hurry—at once. Mr. Giffard asked in his address to you what was the object of the account. The object was very plain. I do not propose to insult your understandings, gentlemen, by saying that a fraud was not contemplated at one time, but you may, perhaps, be inclined to believe that such a statement as I am now making is made only with one motive. Does it redound to my advantage, does it help to clear me at all, or do I state anything to you intrinsically improbable? I think not I have no doubt Mr. Giffard has had a great deal of experience in this sort of business, and I daresay he will believe me when I say that men engaged in illegitimate transactions do not place very much confidence in each other, or any more than they are absolutely bound to do; and if there was an intention, in spite of the withdrawal of one party, still to carry out the original scheme, it is not likely that party, after having entirely withdrawn, should be intrusted with any confidence concerning the scheme. He asks who were benefited by it; and if he sifts the matter to the bottom I think it could be very easily explained; but who was intended to be benefited by it, is another question. Mr. Giffard, in his opening address, said it was the belief of the prosecution that Austin Bidwell was on his way to Mexico. If that were their belief, I can only say it is well founded. He then referred to the package of bonds sent to New York addressed to Austin Biron Bidwell, care of the Safety Deposit Co. Of course it is very difficult to prove any such statement as this. Notwithstanding, it is the simple truth that that package never was intended for Austin Bidwell; and, if you think that is hardly the case, I might ask, if it was really intended for him why was it not sent to Vera Cruz, where he was going, instead of to New York, 1, 800 miles away from Vera Cruz. The printing and engraving of these bills were nearly all done after the 25th of January. When Mr. Chabot was called at the Mansion House, he was very careful not to give any opinion as to the cheques and bills that were sent after he became aware that Austin Bidwell was not in England at the time, and it was only upon coming hero, after being in possession of all the circumstances, that he then gave it as his opinion that those bills were not signed by Austin Bidwell. Of course I do not presume to impugn Mr. Chabot. I have no doubt whatever that his testimony is perfectly conscientious, but with such aids to help his decision, is it at all extraordinary that his testimony should have been precisely what it was yesterday. Since Mr. Chabot first took upon himself the profession of an expert, business of this kind, like that of every other, has made very great strides. It has become, as one of the newspapers said, an art I mean fraud of this description, and, although a very wretched, unhappy, miserable, and contemptible art, it may be to a certain extent called an art nevertheless. Mr. Chabot would induce you to believe that these cheques were left signed by Austin Bidwell I am unwilling to allow that statement to be left as it was by Mr. Chabot on your minds when you come to meditate on your verdict. My only object is to make as much reparation as can be done to a person who, in spite of Mr. Giffard's statement as to its improbability, has been deceived and imposed upon, and has had his confidence violated. If I am successful in pressing that view of the case upon you, I shall have obtained all I can possibly ask for. If I am not successful, I gan only regret it; but I ask, when you go to consider your verdict, to bear in mind the statement I have made; to consider whether there is anything intrinsically improbable in it, and to say whether it is at all likely that I would stand up here and, through any other motive than the one I have mentioned, make observations which must necessarily be most prejudicial to myself. That is all, gentlemen, I have to say to you." (The Prisoner was about further to make some remarks with reference to the case of Noyes, but he, as well as George Bidwell, were told that (key could not be allowed to do so, Noyes being defended by Counsel.)

The prisoner George Bidwell stated that he had prepared some observations to address to the Jury, but as they had been anticipated by Macdonnell he would content himself by merely confirming what he had said.

GUILTY.— The prisoners were each sentenced to Penal Servitude for Life, and it was ordered that each should pay one-fourth of the costs and expenses of the Prosecution.


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